Problems with TVM fowler vent.

[roundball]

Replace that historically incorrect touch hole liner. Nothing worse then a liner with a slot or hex hole in it. Go with the "White Lightning". You don't need to pull out your touch hole liner anyway. Good luck..

Oh yes, like I'm certain every piece of your equipment is precisely 100% PC/HC...give us a break

:shake:

 

[Birdwatcher]

This gun is my first flinter. I ordered it in the fall of '08 after my young nephews up in NY were blown away when we went to Ticonderoga for the 250th. The plan was I would bring it up to NY and shoot it with them the following summer.

I was very happy when the gun was delivered in May of '09. This happiness lasted until I stopped in at Friendship during the spring shoot where it was immediately pointed out that....

The barrel is completely untapered, unlike all originals of that era, and comsiderably clumsier and heavier than a tapered barrel in use. I was blindsinded by this, NOWHERE on the TVM website does it mention this about their barrels.

The other problem was this, as delivered there was a gap between pan and barrel.

I was advised not to fire the gun like that but to send it back. Major bummer of course for me and my nephews :cursing:

I called ahead, and on the way back to Texas stopped in at TVM personally, they re-set the lock while I waited. Hence Capt Jas's post below.

As things turned out, I didn't get to bring the gun up to NY for another two years. My wife and I shot it only once in that period, just to say we had, our first time shooting a flinter.

I did bring it up there finally this past summer, we shot the heck out of it, and have fired it about 200 times since August. So it is that the major flaws are just now becoming apparent.

Capt Jas wrote...

Have you had the barrel out and not screwed her back or is the tang not let down like that from the shop? Wood screw or bolt to the trigger plate?

PS

I see when you took your new gun back to have the lock corrected it was just let it in leaving the lock panel sitting high.

Is the scrape on the wood behind the cock a result of seating the lock where it should have originally been?

Jas...

I have not touched the tang or had the barrel out of the stock, here's a photo I took the day I got the gun...

and that most recent photo again...

Your point is well taken as to how the lock was poorly reset when I took it back. The ding on the wrist of the stock behind the cock however must be something I did as the cock does not contact here.

I will say that a 1" flint mounted squarely in this 1" lock will ding the barrel every time, hence the gouges in the metal above tbe vent.

Pertinent to the vent, I have been informed elsewhere that slotted vent liners like this are designed to be installed such that the screwdriver slot can be filed off level,this one was installed deeper and the filing omitted, presumably as another shortcut.

However the vent liner projecting inside the barrel would explain why a breech scraper will not turn inside the barrel. I dunno what degree of fouling could accumulate inside the barrel around the projecting vent liner. Probably I should get it replaced.


Folks, as to the greater issue; it is what it is. Turns out I was misled by TVM's lack of provided information into buying a gun with what amounts to an untapered pipe as a barrel.

Furthemore, I have already brung it back personally to TVM once, the gun passed through their hands a SECOND time, and was handed back to me as "fixed" the way it is now. I'm not really interested in dealing with those people a second time.

Turns out that for my $1,400 delivered I got a poorly assembled piece with obvious flaws. Aint the end of the world or anything but it still kinda sucks.

S--- happens I guess. Ethics wouldn't allow me to sell this gun without pointing out all of the above to a prospective buyer, and I doubt I could justify the expense for a purchase like this a second time around. The gun does go off (80% of the time anyway) at least, so I'm gonna have to go with this sow's ear for the present.

First step I guess is finding someone to pull the vent liner and set one up properly.

Thanks for the input all.

Birdwatcher

 

[Birdwatcher]

Oh, btw the tang is held in place by a screw I presume, as I see no place where a bolt would attach on the triggerguard...

I did check to see if it was loose, it snugged up only about a quarter turn, not enough to change anything.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Lot to be said here but I'll restrain myself. Very sorry for your dissapointment. I know the feeling. But, something happened to that barrel to raise the tang. The barrel should be removed, checked for a clean inlet and attempt to reset properly. If it fit once it will fit again. Your flint can be moved to the right a little to avoid hitting your barrel. Or just try a 3/4" one. As for the slotted vent liner being the "worst thing".... :barf:
And, do find someone who will fix the liner inside the barrel. Your gun is needing some final work to make it useable. Don't sweat the taper thing, it is what it is. With time and experience you can plan on a replacement (at more $$$) down the road.

 

[123.DieselBenz]

So . . . was this TV Manufacturing, or Muzzleloading?

Everybody makes mistakes . . . but when given a chance to fix it, they really should have gone above and beyond to ensure it was RIGHT when they handed it back to you!

Did you ask them about the un-tapered barrel?

 

[Birdwatcher]

But, something happened to that barrel to raise the tang.

If so, I cannot imagine what it was. The gun has been packed amid dogs and luggage in our Corolla a time or two but never bearing a load to my knowledge, and I dunno that wood would take a bend rather than crack even if it had.

I did take a bunch of photos the day it arrived to show off on the 'net. That day 1 pic I posted above of the lock really doesn't show the tang. Here's the best I have of the tang when new, not very clear.

Since the light in the shot is coming from the left, the lighter left edge of the tang could mean that it has always been that way. I took no notice of this particular detail until it was pointed out on this very thread, certainly I have not noticed any changes.

If a change has taken place, is it possible that natural curing of the maple stock in this warm and dry climate could have caused this?

Birdwatcher

 

[Birdwatcher]

So . . . was this TV Manufacturing, or Muzzleloading?

Tennesse Valley Muzzleloading, here's the fowler page...
http://www.avsia.com/tvm/fowler.htm

Still NO MENTION of the barrel taper... :cursing:

(Sorry, but sorta like a little stone in your shoe, this is an issue every time I carry or shoot it).

Did you ask them about the un-tapered barrel?

Actually I did not, indeed I was pleasant and polite. Recall that i) this was my first flinter and ii) I had never shot a flinter AT ALL at that point.

I had picked up enough at my brief first-time stop-in at Friendship on that same trip to ask where the barrel was made. I believe its a Longhammock (??) from Florida.

A full appreciation of the drawbacks of the historically incorrect heavy pipe barrel has come with one more visit to Ti, two more stop-ins at Friendship, a dove hunt, and about 180 rounds other shooting.

I shall send a certified letter of complaint to TVM direct, just so my bitching is on record.

Birdwatcher

 

[ApprenticeBuilder]

Tennesse Valley Muzzleloading, here's the fowler page...

OMG, ill speaking of the anointed one...

The Mayans were right, the end is near.

 

[jbrowngunmaker]

Birdwatcher,
Why not just ask Matt to take this gun back in trade on one more to your liking. It's just another gun sale to him and probably will cost you very little difference if any just for customer satisfaction. Won't be his first time to make a customer happy with a different gun.
Jackie

 

[Mike Brooks]

Won't be his first time to make a customer happy with a different gun.

This sort of thing happens on a regular basis?

 

[Birdwatcher]

This sort of thing happens on a regular basis?

Hey Mike.... got anything ya wanna trade...? :haha:

 

[rabjr]

I guess those of us who were pleased with receiving a gun that didn't need any fixin are a minority....

 

[hanshi]

Examining the before and after pictures it appears the barrel was seated fine initially but in the after pictures it is obviously NOT fully seated. Check that and the vent hole problem will probably be solved.

As to the vent liner, sometimes they are a bit too long and intrude just a bit into the chamber. I've had this happen maybe twice over the years and fixed it by removing the liner, filing or grinding the coned end a tad shorter and cleaning it up before reinstalling. It's easy to do, takes only a few minutes and works wonders.

The marks on the barrel from the flint only means the flint was not installed properly. Install it so it clears the barrel and problem solved. As was mentioned earlier just move it to the right.

I have the same gun you have and haven't had a problem. If one cropped up I'd immediately contact TVM. They do care about their customers and will go the limit to see that you're satisfied. When I ordered my smoothbore from them I did not specify a particular barrel and decided I'd be satisfied with their "default" barrel which is the one you and I currently have. It doesn't appear to taper very far past the "wedding ring" where emerges from the octagon. I find this barrel quite satisfactory for my use. Other barrels are available upon request.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Won't be his first time to make a customer happy with a different gun.

This sort of thing happens on a regular basis?

Mike, your inference is unfair to anyone who has ever been in businesse. Any kind of business. The unforseen happens with everything. Business success is built on customer satisfaction. I owned a Sears Roebuck store at the time, in the 1970s, when they changed the slogan "CUSTOMER SATISFACTION GUARANTEED" from really meaning that to "but only if we think you should be satisfied". From that point on Sears whithered away to almost extinction. TVM, whichever one it is, to keep it's reputation and customer base needs to make sure their customers are happy. Previous poster, Jackie Brown, offered to remake my fowler for me. I didn't ask, he offered. I thanked him but declined. Nevertheless he retained my goodwill and respect. That is good business, not necessarily perfection all the time, which would be impossible.

 

[Capt. Jas.]

I am truly amazed at the large number of people who praise how well businesses correct crappy work that should have never made it out of the shop. Most should not have passed with nothing more than a casual visual inspection.

 

[tallbear]

Birdwatcher
I would remove the existing ventliner.I would then temporary plug the hole ,then redrill for a 3/8" Chambers white lightning liner makeing sure to remove all of the temporary plug.The touch hole may still be a litle high but if done carefully it should be lower by about an 1/8 give or take.That should clear up any ingnition problems.It appears you have plenty of room for a 3/8 liner on the barrel flat.

Mitch Yates

 

[rabjr]

I am truly amazed at the large number of people who praise how well businesses correct crappy work that should have never made it out of the shop. Most should not have passed with nothing more than a casual visual inspection.

Well said. :thumbsup:

 

[ericb]

Stick with it, Birdwatch. I know full well what your going thru, having saved 2 years to buy a Pedersoli Charleville cuz they were s'posed to be the best, only to find some unacceptable flaws in it when I got it. Suffered the mental pain & anguish of shipping it back to Dixie twice, but after all that I now have a shooter & a looker that's the talk of the Range every time I show up. Hopefully your defects can be addressed - they often can, but painful as it may be you may have to insist on refund or replacement. But stick with it either way - you are in the Right on this...

Eric

 

[ApprenticeBuilder]

I'll tell ya,
If you pull that barrel out of that stock I would bet that you will see that the liner is centered top to bottom, or darn near it

looking at the lock and wood reveal in relation to the barrel it is below the centerline to give the impression of a slimer rifle,

drill out that liner to .070 and be done with it, it'll give 100% reliability.

 

[Birdwatcher]

Examining the before and after pictures it appears the barrel was seated fine initially but in the after pictures it is obviously NOT fully seated. Check that and the vent hole problem will probably be solved.

Then you have a better eye than I do Sir, and I have had the gun in hand all along. As stated, so far as I can tell the gun has been like that since it was new. I didn't even know there was a problem in that regard until I posted here.

How on earth would bending the tang/unbedding the barrel on an assembled gun happen without ANY signs of movement/damage elsewhere on that gun? Even the bedding around the wedding band is still tight and undisturbed.

At present, the tang projects at most somewhat less than 1mm above the stock at its highest point, hardly a huge amount. So, lowering the vent that much is gonna fix ignition??

[quote}As to the vent liner, sometimes they are a bit too long and intrude just a bit into the chamber. I've had this happen maybe twice over the years and fixed it by removing the liner, filing or grinding the coned end a tad shorter and cleaning it up before reinstalling. It's easy to do, takes only a few minutes and works wonders.[/quote]

If it is so easy, why isn't it done already?

Mine wont budge with moderate force so I ain't gonna try to force it.

The marks on the barrel from the flint only means the flint was not installed properly.

They also mean a 1" flint centered in the lock hits the barrel every time :haha: And once again, I have not made an issue of that. Hey, 200+ rounds into it, I have already figured out the "shift it a tad to the right" thing.

I have the same gun you have and haven't had a problem.[/quote]

Congrats

When I ordered my smoothbore from them I did not specify a particular barrel and decided I'd be satisfied with their "default" barrel which is the one you and I currently have. It doesn't appear to taper very far past the "wedding ring" where emerges from the octagon.

It doesn't taper AT ALL, anywhere, other than the abrupt step-down from octagon to round. If the extra weight, different balance, and historical innacuracy of this blatant cost-cutting measure in an expensive gun doesn't bother you, good on ya.

I believe everyone else, including yourself, had NO idea it was going to be that way at the time of purchase.

Other barrels are available upon request.

And how, pray tell, is one supposed to know even to ask? I sure didn't.

Is any information given out about the barrel? Other than half octagon-half round, .62 cal.... not at all.

I mean, in conversations I requested a different side plate and a different lock (Chambers Colonial Virginia rather than the standard Large Siler) and even signed an ordering form to that effect with the down payment. The subject of an alternate barrel choice never came up.

If alternate barrels WERE available, OF COURSE I would have opted for historical accuracy even at somewhat higher cost, as it was I already anted up an extra $100 for the round-faced lock I got.

Birdwatcher