Problems with TVM fowler vent.

[hanshi]

Call them and patiently describe why you're not satisfied and then send it back with your instructions included. That's about all you can do.

 

[hanshi]

Over the decades I've become the owner of highly regarded, newly bought guns with major problems. These were some of the best produced by the best. The builders weren't "crappy builders" and they didn't build garbage. But when sent back to the factory, they always made it right. Every single item that leaves a maker cannot always be 100%. It's statistically impossible.

Just one example. Colt Pythons are pretty much the ultimate revolver; you just about have to know someone to get your hands on a copy. Guess what? I received one years ago that wouldn't even fire. A trip back to the factory with detailed instructions did the trick. And this is only one of many.

Out of a thousand "anythings", a few will have problems; bank on it. This goes for things even you treasure.

 

[rabjr]

Big ******* difference between a factory made mass produced product and one a man creates with his own hands spending 100+ hours on, big ******* difference...

 

[Capt. Jas.]

Totally no comparison. We are not talking factory here. Small beans production where there is NO excuse for letting manure go out the door unnoticed that can be detected at a glance.

 

[Birdwatcher]

First off, thanks to EVERYONE for all the input here. As suggested, I'll bet simply opening the vent would solve the problem. I am gonna get the liner pulled tho to see if I can resolve the inside breech issue.


...and, to put the "Birdwatcher must have bent that gun" theory to rest, ladies and gentlemen of the jury.....


Exibit A: From that prior pic, the unfired TMV fowler pan as delivered, here shown on or about June 25th 2009, prior to alteration by TVM, hence the gap. Pay particular attention to the height of that rear flange of the lock in relation to the barrel flats....

Exibited B: Same TVM fowler pan, November 12th, 2011, once again pay particular attention to the height of that rear flange in relation to the barrel flats....

WHOOP WHOOP!! Ding ding! I submit that that barrel COULD NOT have become unseated, moved or shifted AT ALL during the two years and five months between these two photos.


Ergo, to cite Lady Gaga....

...this particular fowler must indeed have been "born this way", and "stayed that way" before, during and after that return visit to Corinth.


Exonerated at last :haha:

Birdwatcher

 

[Capt. Jas.]

Birdwatcher
I would remove the existing ventliner.I would then temporary plug the hole ,then redrill for a 3/8" Chambers white lightning liner makeing sure to remove all of the temporary plug.The touch hole may still be a litle high but if done carefully it should be lower by about an 1/8 give or take.That should clear up any ingnition problems.It appears you have plenty of room for a 3/8 liner on the barrel flat.

Mitch Yates

Mitch that is really the best suggestion. I would add for whoever did the work to check to see if the barrel is properly seated before proceeding.
While in the shop, an opportunity to remove all that extra wood and slim down that gun could be used.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Examining the before and after pictures it appears the barrel was seated fine initially but in the after pictures it is obviously NOT fully seated. Check that and the vent hole problem will probably be solved.

I agree. But seems to not be a concern. :idunno:
The crucial issue now is that the barrel is not tapered.
We seem to have different priorities than some others.

 

[hanshi]

Agreed. Speaking only for myself, it's a non-issue whether the barrel is tapered or not though I can see how it can be important to others. I guess it depends on the intended use.

If I wanted a super light upland gun meant for wing shooting among other types of hunting, a tapered barrel sounds good and is what I'd specify in my order. There is, indeed, more than one issue being debated, here.

 

[Birdwatcher]

....a tapered barrel sounds good and is what I'd specify in my order.

If you were selling expensive replicas of a class of weapons that ALWAYS had tapered barrels, but with untapered barrels as a cost-cutting measure, would you not state that up front?

Yes or no.

If I wanted a super light upland gun meant for wing shooting among other types of hunting, a tapered barrel sounds good

Sir, your general indifference to the issue of barrel configuation, and your comment about wingshooting, leads me to believe you have handled even fewer accurately-reproduced fowlers than I have (about five now, in my case).

Note that, while a tapered barrel does save significant weight, give a tremendously improved weight distribution as well as a much superior sighting plane (all these prob'ly why such was insisted upon in the first place), these guns are hardly ideal for wingshooting. I believe "sitting ducks" were the norm back then.

There is, indeed, more than one issue being debated, here.

Well there could be one more....

ON TVM fowlers, apparently as a cost-cutting measure, the ramrod vent is routed in the stock some distance below the barrel.

Besides aesthetics, this has two functional drawbacks... 1) It limits the amount of wood that can be pared from the stock thereby further increasing weight and 2) the unsupported ramrod tip is vulnerable to breakage. Mine crumbled right below the brass tip before use.

Birdwatcher

 

[Birdwatcher]

I agree. But seems to not be a concern

???

...the issue of the barrel having possibly become unseated at the breech, thus bending the tang above tbe level of the stock?

I would have thought the prior two pan photos put that to rest.

Anyhow, here's another; the present configuration of the non-tapered octagon section relative to the forestock.

Remarkably consistent, I measured it.



One thing I do find interesting is the configuration of the forestock around the round barrel section.

Here is is at the wedding band, in respect to the putative breech displacement issue, note how precise the very well done inletting still is.

But also note how much of the round barrel is exposed in this part of the stock, at least half. Then in the pic immediately below taken at the front sight, note how the forestock swells to cover more of the barrel...

I'm wondering if this is a way to make this untapered barrel appear as if, true to the originals, some taper exists.

But I dunno if this is like this on every TVM fowler or just mine.

Birdwatcher

 

[tg]

", but with untapered barrels as a cost-cutting measure, would you not state that up front?"

One would think and hope so but it does not seem to be the case with many builders, it is a form of missleading by omission in my book, I have little respect for those who practice such doings the only reason to do it is to hang on to a market share that might be lost if the facts about the profile were known up front

 

[Birdwatcher]

And just to clarify re: our PM's... neither the octagon nor the round part of a TVM Fowler barrel is tapered, at all.

 

[tg]

That is just plain wrong no matter how you try to stack it up, I suspect such information is not forthcomming in order to try and hold onto a market share that would be lost if the buyer knew what they were getting, and of course a great many do not know or care about the difference, probably the target market unfortunate for the beginner who is expecting a gun that is reasonably close to what it should be, I have said it many times and will repeat once more ..do not rely upon the vendor as the sole source of what should or should not be on any ML as to parts, style and detail.I hope it will work out for you, we have all been there at one time or another I am sure.

 

[123.DieselBenz]

I'm gonna be stopping by Tip Curtis's place here in a few weeks . . . I'm glad this came up, I'm not sure what kinda gun I'm gonna end up with, as my "Requirement" is that it fits me and feels right, and is a flintlock . . .

So my question is how much should the taper be? Should I be able to see it with my naked eye? Or should I bring my micrometer with me (smaller than my calipers on my 6,000 mi trip!)

What gets me about TVM is to get swamped barrel in a rifle is an extra $250 over the cost of a straight barrel . . . when in reality it is only less than $50 difference in retail cost . . . and of course the WAIT!

 

[Mike Brooks]

WOW Birdwatcher, If I would have made the two posts that you just made about a TVM gun I'd have been immediately crucified by the usual suspects. Lets see if they all pile on you..... :wink:

 

[roundball]

What gets me about TVM is to get swamped barrel in a rifle is an extra $250 over the cost of a straight barrel . . . when in reality it is only less than $50 difference in retail cost

I agree that doesn't sound right from just a barrel point of view...since they build from planks and not precarves, wonder if that difference is actually in labor hours involved in making the barrel bed to fit the barrel contours...

 

[Capt. Jas.]

Many charge more to inlet a swamped barrel.

Are not all guns including pre-carves are made from a blank?

If a builder uses a machine to inlet the barrel, run the ramrod channel, and carve out a standard pattern including the lock mortise and general shape of the gun by machine, didn't he technically build from a blank.

 

[Prairieofthedog]

123,TVM used to charge about $100 extra to put the swamped barrel in.About 2 months ago they raised there prices quite a bit.I was gonna order a Lancaster from them in Oct.and the price went from about $1200 to $1500 for the way I was going to have it built.So much for keeping prices level during bad economic times.For that price I will just keep looking for a good used custom.I wish I were a little closer to Tip Curtess's shop!

 

[hanshi]

I think the problem stems from - as has been mentioned by the more HC/PC informed - customers not following (hate to admit it) advice to DO THEIR RESEARCH. TVM, among others, has a simple default build that you see on the website and represents the bare-bones, basic gun they build without any additional customer input. If you want something else all you have to do is specify it. And I really mean SPECIFY. I've been on both sides having ordered the "basic" model and then ordering one with detailed specifics. You do truly get what you order. You can't simply assume they know what you want or understand how HC/PC you have to have your build. If you overlook some detail expect it to show up on your gun as a default part.

This is not to criticize TVM as they do build custom guns as ordered. I learned from experience that you can't "assume" or just take it for granted you'll get exactly what you want without being specific. It's that way when you order a gun built by most anyone. I do know that TVM can build as HC/PC a gun as can be had. All you have to do is research it and then ask.

 

[tg]

I suspect that much of thses builders buisness is first time custom gun buyers and have little knowledge of how things should be and many are reluctant to critique a gun they paid a lot of money for any only later found out that it was not as it should be, and an evergrowing ML correct clueless cheerleeding squad does not help the situation, there is absolutely no excuse for not being up front about an oct/round barrel not having ANY taper the length of the barrel as I said this is serious missrepresentation by omission, no reputable builder would likley make such a gun let alone not be upfront if they were to use such a barrel in an economy model, Hell you even get a batter deal from the land of curry than that.