I saw a t/c and cabelas rifle at a local shop the other day. Both need some work. I have always wanted to learn the art of building muzzleloaders. I was tempted to bring one home and get me feet wet toying with it. Maybe refinishing the wood to another color or style. Replacing the brass with iron. Doing something with the bluing. Just a few thoughts I had while holding the rifles. Just curious what type projects y'all have done and the changes y'all have made to these factory built rifles to enhance them to your liking? Of course i would think you'd have to keep the budget reasonable on such a project to justify it vs buying a custom built rifle.
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Buy it and alter to yer hearts content cuz it will be YOURS. I have both and they both are great riles. You can always keep making changes till its JUST RIGHT for YOU
Good thought to meddle with a factory rifle known as a good shooter before diving in the deep end of building a custom :thumbsup:
Good thought to meddle with a factory rifle known as a good shooter before diving in the deep end of building a custom :thumbsup:
My first build was a Sharon Trade Gun in 1977. It was a good kit and a good rifle but I did not like the narrow, deep crescent, J and S Hawken style steel buttplate. So I got a maple half stick sized blank for $35 and restocked it with a wider buttplate. Since I had the original kit stock there was nothing to lose. So a very good learning project that did not cost much and resulted in a better gun for me.
My first MLer build ever was a TC Hawken kit...in 1976. It was a good initial entry into building MLers, but somewhat deceiving......it was too easy which I didn't realize when I over confidently started a LR from a blank. The long and short version is that the stock ended up in my woodburner, but the parts were re-used in the next LR.....it's name was correctly bestowed as "Ugly", but I still have it and it's "head hitted" 100s of squirrels. Both the first failure and the finished 2nd attempt were valuable lessons that were put to use on my 3rd build. Shown below.
So my advice is to buy a factory kit in lieu of the 2 guns you're looking at and complete the ***'y. Of course the 2 guns you're thinking about would be sorta equal to the kit. The next step could be a parts set from one of the many suppliers, but a Kibler kit would nearly equal a factory kit in simplicity of ***'y. A parts set like a Chambers could follow if your skill level is sufficient... but don't under estimate the complexity of these parts sets which require many hours to complete.
Good luck on your quest.....Fred
So my advice is to buy a factory kit in lieu of the 2 guns you're looking at and complete the ***'y. Of course the 2 guns you're thinking about would be sorta equal to the kit. The next step could be a parts set from one of the many suppliers, but a Kibler kit would nearly equal a factory kit in simplicity of ***'y. A parts set like a Chambers could follow if your skill level is sufficient... but don't under estimate the complexity of these parts sets which require many hours to complete.
Good luck on your quest.....Fred
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My first build started out as a TC Hawken with a roached out barrel. I was able to get a Green mountain drop-in, but because I really couldn't get used to the TC stock, I salvaged all the other components & started out from scratch with a piece of maple plank I had left over from another job. I have to admit that I am a custom furniture builder, but it was still a steep learning curve. My thought was that since I already had all of the components at a very reasonable price, if I screwed up I wouldn't be out much. The gun isn't really HC/PC, but it does kill deer & I still have it.
I then decided I needed more practice, so I scrounged up some more TC parts, including an upgraded flint lock. Along with a .54 Oregon barrel & a piece of cherry,I was on my way with my 2nd build.
That full stock flinter turned out much nicer then my first build, so I went all out with a Rice .58 cal. swamped barrel, Chambers Late Ketland lock,& Davis double set trigger, plus the other appropriate components to build a rifle I am quite proud of.
My main point here is that you don't have make a big cash outlay for salvaged parts to build a usable muzzle loader. Worse case scenario is that if your first attempt leaves you too discouraged to try again, you can probably get your money back by selling off those scrounged parts.
Sorry, I can't post pictures, because although they are all sidelock muzzleloaders, my stock design is not appropriate for posting on this site.
Paul
I then decided I needed more practice, so I scrounged up some more TC parts, including an upgraded flint lock. Along with a .54 Oregon barrel & a piece of cherry,I was on my way with my 2nd build.
That full stock flinter turned out much nicer then my first build, so I went all out with a Rice .58 cal. swamped barrel, Chambers Late Ketland lock,& Davis double set trigger, plus the other appropriate components to build a rifle I am quite proud of.
My main point here is that you don't have make a big cash outlay for salvaged parts to build a usable muzzle loader. Worse case scenario is that if your first attempt leaves you too discouraged to try again, you can probably get your money back by selling off those scrounged parts.
Sorry, I can't post pictures, because although they are all sidelock muzzleloaders, my stock design is not appropriate for posting on this site.
Paul
I took this pile of random parts along with an L&R replacement lock;
And made this TC Renegade, nothing fit without a lot of redrilling and inletting. Having built three flintlocks, two scratch builds and one precarve I thought may homemade kit would be a breeze but it was a challenge.
And made this TC Renegade, nothing fit without a lot of redrilling and inletting. Having built three flintlocks, two scratch builds and one precarve I thought may homemade kit would be a breeze but it was a challenge.
As others have said, you can do whatever you want with one of these factory rifles.
For instance, you can buy a nice silver or German Silver (not real silver) inlay from places like Dixie Gunworks or Track of the Wolf.
A big star or crescent moon always looks good on the stocks cheekpiece.
If you don't want to spend any money at all and you have a piece of contrasting wood, you can make your own inlay like the one shown on my Lyman Great Plains Rifle:
How fancy or modern you want it to be is up to you but I suggest trying to keep with the style used on the real guns.
I've seen some masterful carvings of elk and deer on some of these rifles stocks and the owners were quite proud of them.
To me, they seemed totally out of place though.
The antique rifles that have survived never had such pieces of art work on them.
Although it looks rather crappy to me, something that was often done was the owner would carve their initials into the stock.
This can be seen in the photo below. It is crude, but historically accurate.
Some folks have driven brass headed nails into their stocks to give the gun an "Indian look".
There is no doubt this was done in the past but be warned: If you have a beard, those tacks have a habit of grabbing your whiskers and yanking them out when the gun fires.
Other things that are commonly done is to strip the bluing off of the barrel and brown it.
Shiny brass can be polished or conversely, aged so it looks 150 years old. Whatever floats your boat, as they say.
Have fun. :thumbsup:
For instance, you can buy a nice silver or German Silver (not real silver) inlay from places like Dixie Gunworks or Track of the Wolf.
A big star or crescent moon always looks good on the stocks cheekpiece.
If you don't want to spend any money at all and you have a piece of contrasting wood, you can make your own inlay like the one shown on my Lyman Great Plains Rifle:
How fancy or modern you want it to be is up to you but I suggest trying to keep with the style used on the real guns.
I've seen some masterful carvings of elk and deer on some of these rifles stocks and the owners were quite proud of them.
To me, they seemed totally out of place though.
The antique rifles that have survived never had such pieces of art work on them.
Although it looks rather crappy to me, something that was often done was the owner would carve their initials into the stock.
This can be seen in the photo below. It is crude, but historically accurate.
Some folks have driven brass headed nails into their stocks to give the gun an "Indian look".
There is no doubt this was done in the past but be warned: If you have a beard, those tacks have a habit of grabbing your whiskers and yanking them out when the gun fires.
Other things that are commonly done is to strip the bluing off of the barrel and brown it.
Shiny brass can be polished or conversely, aged so it looks 150 years old. Whatever floats your boat, as they say.
Have fun. :thumbsup:
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i am partial to the T/C, owning several. this is an excellent rifle with which to tinker, and you will end up with a rifle which will shoot straighter than most of (myself included) could hope to hold.
the coolest tools are the ones you make yourself.
to this end, you may want to buy a copy of Alexander's The Gunsmith of Grenville County which can be had from Track of the Wolf. It may appear a bit expensive at first, but this book is more than a cost efficient purchase if you count the value of the parts you don't ruin (not to mention the delays, and the time in purgatory over that bad language you won't use).
some good chisels (if you don't own them) and learn how to get them neurosurgery sharp.
you are about to fall into an addiction from which there is no hope of recovery, but if you're already looking at ML rifles, it's pretty much a closed case at this point... enjoy!!
good luck with your build :grin:
the coolest tools are the ones you make yourself.
to this end, you may want to buy a copy of Alexander's The Gunsmith of Grenville County which can be had from Track of the Wolf. It may appear a bit expensive at first, but this book is more than a cost efficient purchase if you count the value of the parts you don't ruin (not to mention the delays, and the time in purgatory over that bad language you won't use).
some good chisels (if you don't own them) and learn how to get them neurosurgery sharp.
you are about to fall into an addiction from which there is no hope of recovery, but if you're already looking at ML rifles, it's pretty much a closed case at this point... enjoy!!
good luck with your build :grin:
zimmerstutzen
70 Cal.
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I have always suggested that folks get a Cheap CVA pistol, like the Kentucky pistol to refinish and alter. There are dozens of things that can be done. The stock is usually left "too" meaty and can be narrowed down to be more graceful. install a barrel tennon and cut the stock back, ditching that ugly heavy brass nose piece. Install a underrib and ram rod thimble. Get a good file and start rounding the corners from just ahead of the lock plate to the muzzle giving it the appearance of an Oct to round barrel. Change the lock for one with a fly and install a single set trigger. You can buy the guns for $60 to 100 dollars, and if you screw it up, spare parts are available on ebay.
eggwelder
40 Cal.
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OP, I say go for it. I have only one rifle left in as purchased condition, and only because it was new when I bought it, and needs no work. my others have been built, rebuilt, reshaped or restocked, carved and embellished. parts exchanged and adapted. three projects currently being built from slowly collected used parts, many of which are undergoing some change or another.
I`m reading this thread and am left confused. this topic gets brought up fairly often and the usual suspects usually come crashing down upon the OP and the topic with fairly derisive comments followed by "don`t waste your time, go buy new parts", and "why would you restock that thing?".
I don`t take the time to post my new projects made with recycled parts here anymore for simply that reason. maybe myself and others are using the wrong recycled parts. IDK.
this post is, so far, not like that for the most part.
I suppose its not that I`m really confused, it just seems that mixed messages are being sent to new members from the senior members.
it`s refreshing to see the change in attitude, and if it is not a change, maybe I really am confused.
my $0.02.
I`m reading this thread and am left confused. this topic gets brought up fairly often and the usual suspects usually come crashing down upon the OP and the topic with fairly derisive comments followed by "don`t waste your time, go buy new parts", and "why would you restock that thing?".
I don`t take the time to post my new projects made with recycled parts here anymore for simply that reason. maybe myself and others are using the wrong recycled parts. IDK.
this post is, so far, not like that for the most part.
I suppose its not that I`m really confused, it just seems that mixed messages are being sent to new members from the senior members.
it`s refreshing to see the change in attitude, and if it is not a change, maybe I really am confused.
my $0.02.
Myself I think reconditioning a pistol or a rifle is a great way for one to get their feet wet in re-building or building guns. I know it's been done more than once . A Guy buys a nice precarve stock and parts set and ends up with fire wood and scrap metal. You might be able to recover some of your funds but most likely you'll be missing a C note or two. Whereas working on or rebuilding a factory gun you can learn what to do and what not to do without loosing the farm. I'm sure back in the day more than one gun was cobbled together from a piece here and a piece there. I for one would love to see your new projects Eggwelder or anyone else's projects for that matter. :thumbsup: :v
kansas_volunteer
45 Cal.
Go for it. I've completely redone my first T/C from back in the 70s. I changed the shape of the cheek piece into an oval or pancake shape. Also poured a pewter nose cap. It's basically the shape of the original brass but more "authentic." Switched brass for steel. It's more nearly like an original Hawken now, although still far from being HC/PC.
Still in the works is a TC kit I assembled from various parts I some how wound up with. The stock is a Pecatonica full length T/C replacement. It is much longer that the original half stock. So, I decided to use an old Dixie Gunworks barrel I've had for years and build a rifle that will look more like an old trade rifle but using T/C parts. Maybe not the best way to assemble a "custom" rifle but when done -- someday -- will be pretty nice.
You can do a lot with a finished store bought rifle that you can find to be quite satisfying.
Still in the works is a TC kit I assembled from various parts I some how wound up with. The stock is a Pecatonica full length T/C replacement. It is much longer that the original half stock. So, I decided to use an old Dixie Gunworks barrel I've had for years and build a rifle that will look more like an old trade rifle but using T/C parts. Maybe not the best way to assemble a "custom" rifle but when done -- someday -- will be pretty nice.
You can do a lot with a finished store bought rifle that you can find to be quite satisfying.
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