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Prone long rifle

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Raedwald said:
Oh Dear.
All I wanted was to get an opinion from anyone who had actually used this configuration I am well aware of the competition rules and routinely shoot prone, But don't concern yourselves about my question. Do feel free to continue your exchanges of opinion on the subjects you prefer.

Raedwald, thanks for the good chuckle. I am always amazed at the internet experts that will take a simple question and next thing you know it turns into a urinary projectory contest between those that think they know everything and have to post on every question.

I shoot prone on the U.S. International Muzzle-Loading Long Range Team and in September of this year competed in the World long range matches. I have been watching your thread, but since I have not tired what you are wanting to, have not provided any comments.

But I will offer the following. Can you borrow a rifle with that style of butt and see how it works for you in prone position? Or have you considered simply having 2 different butt plates? One for prone and one for standing? Change them out depending on what you are shooting. I have a buddy that does this for his low wall, and it works quite good for him.

Good luck, let us know how it goes.

Fleener
 
The idea is simply to avoid making a special prone stock. The original should work adequately offhand but I wondered if it could also work prone. I can convert a Crockett to a hooked breech and to flint so one stock means a reasonably sized box with a flint and percussion pair of barrels to swap over. USA barrel makers are having problems exporting rifled barrels and they need official proofing as well so a Crockett Ardesa barrel is available in France and is Spanish proofed. There are only two real inherent issues. The slow rifling for a conical in the percussion mode and the vulnerability of light .32 to wind at 100 metres. .32" would make a pleasant change to .753".
 
Raedwald said:
Oh Dear.
I am well used to recoil and, in larger bores (apologies for the OT) use service charges in musket, Snider and Martini Henry so .32 recoil is not any issue for me.
All I wanted was to get an opinion from anyone who had actually used this configuration to help me decide if I will pursue my idea. I am well aware of the competition rules and routinely shoot prone, except for the musket of course.
But don't concern yourselves about my question. Do feel free to continue your exchanges of opinion on the subjects you prefer.

Just remember they mean well. I asked a question and was very specific so it wouldn't go a curtain route like I thought it would but it went there anyway. Some just get stuck in their ways and tend to think they are helping by pushing their ways on others.
 
I would not make a special prone stock, just change the butt plate. Have 2 different butt plates, for one stock. Change those for the different types of shooting.

Fleener
 
Raedwald, I shot on the USIMLT 'Short Range' team from 1999 thru 2009, & specialized mainly in the prone events (Maximilian, Whitworth, & Minie).
As you have already stated the Crocket is a roundball rifle, with the slow twist rifling that it requires. Unless there have been additional matches added to MLAIC competition all the prone matches are shot at 100m, & the only one that the Crocket would qualify for is the Whitworth (Percussion Free Rifle - Roundball or Bullet). To be competitive in this match a conical bullet is a real advantage. For the Whitworth my first rifle was a .451" caliber repro of a Rigby target rifle & then later a copy of the American 'Fisher' rifle in .32 caliber with a 1:14" twist barrel & a 208gn reverse tapered bullet, both rifles were quite capable of MOA accuracy. Unless conditions were very windy I felt no disadvantage in using a .32 caliber, but I feel a .40 or .45 would be a better all round choice.
The Maximilian event is only for Flintlock Free Rifles & only for roundball. In this match the overwhelming caliber of choice was/is .54 which is what I used in my custom-built English style sporting rifle with aperture rear & hooded post front sights. Even with the comparitively heavy .54 ball I can remember shooting in a heavy cross wind at the 2008 World Championships in Australia & even with my rear sight's windage adjusted all the way across I still had to hold on the edge of the paper of the target belonging to the competitor next to me.....that was some serious wind drift! I was the top scoring US shooter in that event that day (but not the match winner), & managed to salvage a bronze medal for the USA in the 'Lucca' 3-man team portion of the competition. I feel that if I'd be using a lesser sized ball/caliber I wouldn't have done so well that day.
The only other prone match is the Minie which is only for Percussion Military Rifle with appropriate projectile style (ie. Minie, Wilkinson, etc., etc.), so the Crocket wouldn't apply here either. In fact the only match to which the Crocket could be competitive, with appropriate changes to sights, is (in my opinion) the Vetterli which is for rifles of any ignition system (Percussion, Flint, or Matchlock), & any style of projectile. However, generally speaking, with the current level of competition any score below a possible 100/100 wouldn't get you a place, so you really need to take every advantage you can.
My recommendation would be to go with a small to medium (.32 - .40) caliber fast twist rifle for a conical bullet with good aperture sights, something akin to the style of a Gibbs or Rigby, etc. & use that with a sling for Whitworth & without for Vetterli.
One of the reasons I gave up shooting with the team on the MLAIC circuit is the number of guns required to compete (most events require a certain type of gun, usualy not useable in any other), with the associated paraphenalia for each, all of which created a lot of expense & logistics when traveling cross country &, especially, overseas. For the European Zone shooters it isn't quite as bad as their area is more compact as far as travel is concerned, with the exception of the occasional overseas event whereas the Pacific Zone (USA, Canada, Japan, Australia, South Africa, & New Zealand) competitors have much more air travel involved.
Best of luck with your decisions.
 
Thank you for your contribution Arquebus. I am under no illusions about either my shooting prowess or the issues inherent with an Ardesa Crockett. I would be content with just participating regionally and competing principally against myself, but addressing these issues would be a interesting challenge and I suspect that, on a still day, it could do a respectable job. All the more so offhand at 50 metres.

My shooting budget is quite limited and I will be selling off my Franco Prussian set to fund the project as I am keeping only the guns I will shoot and reducing collecting. Hammer swedging a .310 mini Metford for the slow twist could help.

The .32 project is one of two competition possibilities to choose between, with a 20 bore Brescia 1540s Henrician snap matchlock reproduction as the other.
 
Well, best of luck with whatever you chose to do. Like you, I mainly compete "against myself" these days, but manage to get away to a couple of shoots a year but mainly using my Martini-Henry & Snider rifles, which have become my main focus of interest in recent years.
Bonne chance!
 
I have never shot my flintlock from the prone position. I did however shoot a doe a couple of years ago with my .308 from the prone position. If it wasn't for the fact that around here in deer season the ground is wet or covered with snow, I would use the prone position when hunting fields, unless of course they had high weeds that you could not see over from a prone position.
 
Are adjustable stocks and butt plates allowed, or a rail such as are quite commonly used in smallbore competition guns? A rail for your sling stop too.

If you want a pure competition gun, and the HC/PC stuff doesn't matter then I would look at what is done with more modern competition stuff. Forget about a ramrod too. Use a separate one.
 
"Are adjustable stocks and butt plates allowed, or a rail such as are quite commonly used in smallbore competition guns?"

Not in MLAIC competitions.
 
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