Proof Hawken made a flint

[Khufu]

I actually have pictures of an original flint Hawken with characteristics of the plains rifles, except it is full stocked. it is not in a museum its privately owned.
The owner of the Hawken Shop in St Louis, MO sent them to me when I was trying to build a PC Hawken, but really wanted it in flint. I will be glad to post them. it convinced me that the elusive flint Hawkens rifle does exist.

 

[Snydly]

This is in the display for Hawken rifles in the Buffalo Bill museum in Cody, Wy. Full stock Hawken Flintlock.

 

[Khufu]

it must be earlier than the rifle I have pictures of, it looks like an eastern longrifle with no plains features.

 

[Khufu]

other than the full stock, and lack of snail breach, its clearly in the Hawkens brother's style

 

[waksupi]

I shot a deer years ago with an original full stock that had been converted to percussion.

 

[APG]

So are all rifles made by anyone in the Hawken family considered a Hawken rifle? Or is it only the ones made by the two brothers from Missouri?

 

[rhart]

I actually have pictures of an original flint Hawken with characteristics of the plains rifles, except it is full stocked. it is not in a museum its privately owned.
The owner of the Hawken Shop in St Louis, MO sent them to me when I was trying to build a PC Hawken, but really wanted it in flint. I will be glad to post them. it convinced me that the elusive flint Hawkens rifle does exist.

Yes, please post.

 

[Khufu]

 

[jefair1]

I tend to look at it in a practical sense. If you are a gun maker and Joe Blow the mountain man comes in and puts cash money on the counter and wants a gun built with a flint cause he don't trust them cap thingies or its too hard to cap a rifle while in a fight or wearing mittens. Do you think that the Hawken brothers would have told him to pack sand and go somewhere else? I think they would have built the rifle.

 

[rhart]

So are all rifles made by anyone in the Hawken family considered a Hawken rifle? Or is it only the ones made by the two brothers from Missouri?

My understanding is that a 'Hawken Plains Rifle' was made by Jacob and Samuel Hawken of the famous Hawken gun-making family. Although they were not the only gunmakers to make 'plains rifles' they were noted as among the best (and charged accordingly for their wares).

 

[Khufu]

I think from the general pattern it is clearly a J&S rifle, maybe even from St Louis. it has a 38" barrel and its about 52 caliber

 

[rhart]

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Is there a 'maker's mark' in one of these pics? I can't see it.

 

[rhart]

I think from the general pattern it is clearly a J&S rifle, maybe even from St Louis. it has a 38" barrel and its about 52 caliber

Definitely a kind of 'plains rifle' style, but appears to be a percussion lock to me.

 

[Khufu]

Definitely a kind of 'plains rifle' style, but appears to be a percussion lock to me.

its clearly a converted flinter, look at the holes in the front of the lock for the frizzen and spring. the rifle clearly has a drum and originally was a flintlock for sure. the trigger guard and butt plate are hawken type and I was told (did not personally see) it was marked.

 

[Comfortably_Numb]

That W HAWKEN rifle in the picture was never flint.

 

[rhart]

its clearly a converted flinter, look at the holes in the front of the lock for the frizzen and spring. the rifle clearly has a drum and originally was a flintlock for sure. the trigger guard and butt plate are hawken type and I was told (did not personally see) it was marked.

Yes, I see the extra holes in the lock plate now that you mention it.

 

[user 48679]

So are all rifles made by anyone in the Hawken family considered a Hawken rifle? Or is it only the ones made by the two brothers from Missouri?

Think of it this way:

Many companies make facial tissues, but most are referred as a "kleenex tissue" - which were first sold by Kimberly-Clark in 1924 as "Kleenex".

When one item becomes popular and widely used; other makers hop on the bandwagon.

There were rifles made by the Hawken brothers that were full & half-stocked; but their half-stocked version became the standard for every gunmaker's half-stocked rifles - aka the "Hawken" pattern, whether or not a half-stocked rifle actually was made by the Hawken brothers.

 

[ronaldrothb49]

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its clearly a converted flinter, look at the holes in the front of the lock for the frizzen and spring. the rifle clearly has a drum and originally was a flintlock for sure. the trigger guard and butt plate are hawken type and I was told (did not personally see) it was marked.

it has the looks of a J & S Hawken but without a picture of the signature I am skeptical. If I had a singed J & S Hawken rifle that would put the debate to rest That signature would be the first picture I would post. I've seen numerous post about the existence of flintlock J & S Hawkens but nobody ever comes up with a picture of the signature.

 

[Black_Feather]

Speaking of, Is there anyone who makes a kit or builds full stock hawken replicas?

 

[Absoroka]

William Hawken actually ended up in Denver and was still making the traditional plains style rifle as late as the 1860's. As for someone making current replicas, try John Bergman. Believe he is in Tennessee.