Proper powder loads

[Loyalist Dave]

A dram of powder is 27 grains of powder. Five drams would be 135 grains. Stout load behind a heavy 320 grain maxi.

YES INDEED, hence the cartoon

LD

 

[lbothell]

In general, and blanket statements are rarely completely true,,, when speaking of smoothbore loads, I seems to notice that most of those running large powder charges are loading bare ball loads. Especially those using no wad at all seem to need that larger charge.
Personally with my two smoothbores I've found good accuracy with wads or patches at around 65/70 grains and 80/85 grains. But then, I'm only looking for groups sub-four inches at 50 yards. Not looking to cut Xs at that distance or further, and not much deer shooting here at much more than 50 yards. If the chance comes up, I'm willing to pass or try to work closer, even if it means possibly not getting a shot.
Might a 90 grain or larger deliver a less than four inch group beyond 50 yards? Maybe,,, but, I have no need for it, so I'll save my powder for more shooting and my shoulder for bowhunting.

Don't get me going on Captain Corpulant and how he somehow became an expert on this stuff

You are right about the ppl shooting bare ball and it makes sense shooting more stout loads, the more pressure around the ball the more stable it will be going down the barrel but like you said I’ll save my powder and put a patch around the ball

 

[Thingamajiggy]

Don't have a smoothbore, YET, hope to soon for turkey hunting. For my BP rifles, I find I like the middle range of charge loads, 70ish grs .50, 80ish grs .54 and .90 grs .58. I find it's plenty for ranges I take animals in and I get good accuracy and easy on the shoulder. My 2 cents on the subject.

 

[Shiloh]

Here's an old post:
"The formula is: 11.5 grains per cubic Inch of bore. You need a 36 inch barrel in .50 caliber to burn 80 grains of powder efficiently.( Actually, 81.29 grains!)

If you, or others forgot all that math you were taught in school( as I had) you calculate the formula this way:

Using the caliber( .50) determine the radius, because you need to know the area of a circle that size before determining the cubic length and content of a cylinder that diameter. The formula that you(I) forgot for determining the area of a circle is " Pi R Squared". Pi is 3.1416 for our puposes. R is the Radius.

Now the radius is half the diameter, so use .25 as your radius. Now square the radius, by multiplying it times itself.

.25 x .25= .625. Now multiply that number times 3.1416, which equals .1963125.

Now, multiply that number times 11.5 = 2.2580.

Now, multiply that times your barrel length to get the volume of the cylinder that is your bore length and diameter. 36 x 2.2580 = 81.288, or 81.29 grains.

Charles Davenport did NOT Invent the formula. It was worked out centuries before him to use with all Black Powder firearms. Ordinance was concerned not only with how much powder needed to be shipped on warships to feed cannons, but also with how much powder was needed to feed muskets and later, rifles.

The King would not be very happy if he spent his money to send his army to a distant shore to battle foreign armies, only to be told his war was lost because the ordinance department didn't send along enough powder! So, bean counters were around a long time ago. The formula is NOT JUST FOR Cannons, as one member here keeps insisting( with absolutely NO evidence to back up his statements, I might add).

The formula does NOT say you can't PUT more powder in your barrel, or FIRE more powder in your barrel, or even GET MORE velocity by putting more powder in your barrel. It deals with getting the MOst Velocity from the barrel with the Least Amount of Powder- that is " Efficiency".

When you pass the Efficient formula amount, you venture into the "Law of Diminishing Returns", that is, you get less and less increase in velocity for each measured increment in increase of powder.( Caveat: Particularly with shooting PRBs, the coefficient of friction between the PRB and the bore is so small, that you can get fluctuations in these velocities as you increase powder charges beyond the "efficient " formula- recommended load. Only meticulous attention to cleaning the barrel between each shot, and shooting long shot strings, to average, is going to give you a better idea about how any " Over charge load " will shoot out of your gun, on a particular day, with particular temperature and humidity present.)

Before overcharging any gun, you should take into consideration that the Sound Barrier does bad things to any projectile, but does even nastier things to a RB. Pushing any RB over 1135 fps. requires that ball to come back down through both the Sound Barrier, and the Transonic Zone, where all kinds of forces hammer the ball in the air.

And you should also consider that the faster something leaves the barrel to fly through the air, the faster it will slow down. You can see this clearly if you look at the tables in the Lyman Shotshell Reloading Manual( any edition) that shows shot size, MVs, and then down range velocities at 20,40& 60 yards. The Chart makes it very easy to compare loss of velocity for the faster MVs vs. the Slower MVs. for any particular size shot you are interested in.

Since "bird shot " are simply smaller Round Balls, the principles of Aerodynamics that apply to shot also apply to shooting a single Round Ball from a rifle or smoothbore through air."

You do increase recoil, BTW, as half of the weight of the powder charge is going to move rearward, while the other moves forward. ( "For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction". Newton's Third Law of Motion.)

Charles Davenport is reported to have walked the firing lines at Friendship each year talking to the shooters, asking the caliber of their rifles, and their barrel lengths, and then consulted his book to give them their maximum efficient load. Phil Quaglino relates that Davenport told shooters to reduce that max. efficient powder charge by 10% and then work up to find the most accurate load for their gun. The 10% factor helped to make adjustments for barrel harmonics, that are unique to each gun. Quaglino held several national records as a rifle shooter, and may still hold several pistol records. He was a barrel maker, first in New Hampshire, and later in Florida, and has been building guns for more than 50 years. Even though he is officially "retired", Phil is still making guns, mostly for himself

I’m going to apply this to my smooth bore pistol. I’ve been trying 30 grains but according to this formula I should be using 9.75 grains. Maybe I can get better groups by down loading.

 

[gunpa]

"Powder" is a very loose term. Start over gentlemen!

 

[gshiller47]

wtilenw has an error in the math. .25 x .25 is .0625

 

[gunnyr]

Get the debate started? Didn't we just discuss this here?
https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/powder-charge-how-much-powder-do-you-use.157938/


Round 2: Commence!

DING DING the bell has rang , step to the center and toe the mark
Let me know how the bout ends, I'm going to have a glass of water and go to bed
Gunny

 

[BillRob]

I don't know about all the calculations or how much powder gets burned and how much is wasted. I do know that when I reduced the charge on my .54 Hawken from 110 grains fff to 90 grains, the accuracy didn't suffer and the recoil was a lot less unpleasant!

 

[Bushfire]

I've seen folks mention Beliveaus' 110 grain load many times on here. One thing I noticed.... at least in the English fowler video.... is he's shooting a 12 gauge...110 grains is pretty resonable for a 500 grain ball.

The 110gn loads are specifically related to his 20G fusil.

 

[shaman]

I just did the calculation for my Pedersoli Brown Bess. For a .79 cal 41.75 inch barrel, the answer came out to 74.911 grains. I normally shoot at 80 grains, so I'd say the formula is dead on. 90 grains behind a 69 cal ball was too stiff for my liking.

I'm wondering though, when I'm wearing my centerfire rifle hat, there is a marked difference in pressure and velocity based on the weight of the bullet. When I go from a 150 grain .308 bullet to a 165 grainer, my powder requirements decrease.

I wonder how that plays out in a smoothbore like my Bess. Surely there would be difference between a .69 paper cartridge ball and a .715 or .735 patched ball. I don't know. I'm just asking.

Also: I ran the numbers for my patched roundball .54 Hawken. The answer came back 68.475 grains. That seems rather light compared to my experience with the gun. What am I missing? Do things change if there is rifling involved?

 

[mushka]

I didn't realize that BP shooting would be so complicated. Math ain't my strong suit. I ain't figured out what my strong suit is yet.

 

[Historian]

Big difference between shooting at flying targets or those standing still. If you are are a bird hunter shooting flying quarry then speed counts and our ancestors knew it. Hunting targets that are standing still is more about accurate shot placement with enough energy to get the job done. Shoot what works for you and your gun. Not what others think. You are the one pulling the trigger and looking down the barrel.

 

[centershot]

I didn't realize that BP shooting would be so complicated. Math ain't my strong suit. I ain't figured out what my strong suit is yet.

"The two most important days in a man's life are the day he is born, and the day he understands why." Mark Twain

 

[N.Y. Yankee]

Frankly Miss Scarlet, I dont give a damn if any powder is "wasted". I use the highest charge under maximum that is accurate. I want to smash shoulder bones, not break eggs and clay pidgeons.

 

[akroguy]

If target shooting, the least powder to get the ball/bullet to the target to point of aim is what I'll use. If hunting, still the least amount of powder that is accurate AND imparts sufficient energy into the game for quick dispatch. Perhaps the mind set should be "how little powder can I use to achieve the intended goal" instead of how MUCH.

We're not firing deck guns on the USS Missouri here.

 

[tenngun]

I didn't realize that BP shooting would be so complicated. Math ain't my strong suit. I ain't figured out what my strong suit is yet.

‘Mathematics is fine but don’t leave out the trifle the hands head and mind that back up the rifle’

 

[Comfortably_Numb]

All of my kills on deer were less than 50 yards except one. Magnum loads haven't been needed. No need to "smash" anything just poke a hole where you're supposed to, and you'll have no problems.

 

[Carl.allen934]

I didn't realize that BP shooting would be so complicated. Math ain't my strong suit. I ain't figured out what my strong suit is yet.

Only as complicated as you make it

 

[gunpa]

50 yard shots are highly unlikely around these parts. Best power level and good accuracy are a necessity. I don't feel recoil when shooting at critters!

 

[TDM]

This is/was an interesting thread. Sorry I missed the beginning of it. Good information.