Proper range safety

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

Just curious if there is a consensus about proper reloading safety at a shooting range with respect to muzzle loaders.

I've always been taught to reload behind the line, but prime after you step up to the line.

The reason I ask is I got chewed out by a range officer once. He would hear none of my explanations and insisted I do all my reloading/priming at the line. Since I was the only one shooting a muzzleloader at the range I aquiesced and went along with it.

In hindsight I suppose the proper thing to do would have been to tell him that no way was I going to follow his unsafe advice, and politely pack up and leave.

 

[curator]

Black Jaque,

Unfortunately, not all "range safety officers" learn the differences between safely loading a muzzle loading rifle behind the line and shooters using modern rifles that are loaded at the firing line. I am a NRA Training Counselor and Chief Range Safety Officer who regularly teaches the range safety officer (RSO) certification class. The current NRA RSO certification class has a brief section on how to tell if a muzzle loading gun is loaded but that's about all. I make a point of familiarizing my RSO students with range protocol for muzzle loading guns, rifle, pistol, and shotgun in case they should ever get a call to "officiate" at a muzzle loading event.

It is also often true that the RSO with the least amount of knowledge is the most officious and inflexible. I strongly suggest you contact the club management and politely ask that the range standard operating procedures (SOP) be modified to include the safe, behind the line loading of muzzle loading guns. You can refer them to the NMLRA or other muzzle loading club that sponsors competition shooting. That done, be assured even the most officious of "Range-Nazis" will diligently enforce the club's range SOPs.

 

[necchi]

Well said curator!
The two key points,

Unfortunately, not all "range safety officers" learn the differences between safely loading a muzzle loading rifle behind the line and shooters using modern rifles

and

I strongly suggest you contact the club management and politely ask that the range standard operating procedures (SOP) be modified,,

Most of these guy's are just blindly following NRA rules and are clueless about Traditional ML's, but it can be tuff to get folks to understand the loading issues when there's a "don't touch the firearm" rule.

There's a Public range in town I won't go to anymore because of the RO's they have,, flip side of the coin is those same RO's have to deal with some true idiots from the CF world on a daily basis.

If possible try to find a different time of day to shoot, an RO with less pressure may understand.

 

[biliff]

Our BP range was recently combined with the .22 rimfire range (club is getting crowded). Took awhile to get the cartridge shooters educated on BP loading/shooting procedures. There were a few "incidents" as you described. Fortunately, everything is well documented with procedures published at the range. Being able to immediately point out their error shuts them down right quick.

 

[pa woods roamer]

At some BP clubs when the order to Bench all weapons Is given You can`t touch Your gun until the Range Open order Is given. have been to some where Guys are cleaning and loading, but no Prime allowed,between relays.

 

[azmntman]

I shoot only in the woods. I'm the range master. I wouldn't mind the range master as much as the fellow shooters that are the reason we need the range master. My Pet Peave is stupid. It's EVERY WHERE. And they vote(ed)

 

[nkbj]

Very happy with my range officer.

 

[Orthod]

My local club welcome BP shooters, but so far I am the only one I have seen with one. No issues. When I have the poorboy at the range it usually draws some attention not only because of the flintlock but that it is left handed.

 

[gard72977]

I am new to a Muzzle loading club. It was a little strange for me to see so much gun handling with people down range.

 

[Lonegun1894]

I sometimes help out as the RSO, and being familiar with both moderns and MLs helps a lot. Having said that, I am also the ONLY RSO that shoots a ML, and the rest (with one exception), well, you tell em something, and anything that seems a bit different than what they have been told about moderns just goes in one ear and out the other. It's like they can't wrap their minds around a few basic facts. This is even more frustrating in that I have met each of them individually to teach them and let them shoot my MLs, and other than the one exception that showed a slight interest, the rest are still completely clueless. Know what I do? I go when I expect the range to be dead, so the RSO will be in the office helping out instead of down at the firing line with just me, or maybe me and another shooter babysitting me/us. So unless I'm working that day, you won't catch me there on a Saturday, or even late afternoons during the week. I go early in the mornings, especially if its raining (outdoor range), or cold (45 or less preferably), or hot (over 100 degrees), or whatever else that makes going to the range either miserable or very inconvenient to the average shooter. I also bring something modern to play with in case I am wrong and people do decide to show up and I don't have the range to myself, cause that 20+ miles each way adds up quick and I have to make each trip worth it.

 

[TFoley]

I am new to a Muzzle loading club. It was a little strange for me to see so much gun handling with people down range.

UK Range orders -

RCO calls out -

'Two minutes to target change!'

'One minute to target change!'

'Target change, clear and stand away from your guns!'

RCO then checks each gun is clear and breeches flagged'

'Clear to go forward and change targets!'

NOBODY goes near any gun while people are forward of the firing line. NO guns are handled behind the firing line unless they are in a case and coming on or leaving the range.

Having seen all shooters are back behind the live - RCO calls 'Muffs on! Carry on firing!'

Or something VERY similar.

Noboy, but nobody, touches a gun while people are forward of the shooting line.

tac

 

[TFoley]

Seeing as how, less than a minute late, I could not edit my post above, I have to write and addendum.

I'm usually the only muzzleloading shooter in my club, and since I only shoot a musketoon, it's no big deal to load it at the bench.

However, the MLAGB, when shooting en masse at either Bisley or Wedgenock or Barton Road, habitually load behind the line and cap up or prime on the line.

tac

 

[Loyalist Dave]

I do have a problem with folks fiddling with firearms when others are down range posting targets, even when that firearm is a muzzleloader. IF folks with modern arms who are RO's don't understand muzzleloaders, then it follows that shooters with modern arms also don't, and when they see somebody handling a "gun" while others are down range..., they will do so too. Included in this is the fact that "modern" muzzleloaders look like a modern, bolt action or break action rifle.

Here's a link entitled "muzzle loader explodes at gun range", which is not correct for it really is a situation where the box of powder pellets is sitting open ON THE LINE, when the shooter touches off his modern ML..., so you might want to show your RO's this clip in case they don't believe your words of safety...

LD

 

[Alden]

In the same position as Curator but also being a Certified Chief RSO, grad of the NRA Range Development & Ops program, having been a professional uniformed RO for a government and run all the facility's ranges at the busiest public shooting sports site in the U.S. I will say I do not necessarily agree with him.

BP shooters loading "behind the line" minimally does three things... Makes other now-nervous shooters distracted, promotes a danger situation because a gun IS being at-least partially and possibly completely loaded and primed behind some people rather than in front and pointed down-range of all of them, and the RO's cannot as easily watch all the now more-dispersed shooters.

Sorry! Load and shoot in line, at your position. Or as someone said, best to pack up and leave.

Now:
Time for the folks who insist on doing what they want, when they want, as they want, who'll profess their perfect, accident-free (who can't always remember "powder, then ball" or to keep that maybe-open can of powder or horn off their bench), "I'll be damned if I'll be told what I can and cannot do" "shooters" to whine...

 

[gard72977]

The club im in is a Muzzle loader only ( and round ball only) club. We cannot prime or cap until we are at the firing line and have the gun pointed down range. I feel completely safe after I became accustomed to what was going on. It was just a change for me.

I would feel better at a regular range if no one was allowed to touch a gun when the line is cold. I do not mind people loading behind the line but I have never had trouble laoding at the firing line.

 

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

In my particular circumstance, I am not referring to cleaning/loading while others are downrange. I am referring to stepping back behind the line before I open my powder horn.

As I noted, since I was the only muzzleloader there I aquiesced because I did not figure the risk of opening a powder horn while at the line with other centerfires was so great. It's a bit different with other muzzleloaders at the line.

 

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

I was always taught that the reason for stepping back to load was because, in order to load a muzzle loader you have to unplug your horn at some point in the process. The possibility of sparks from another gun igniting an entire horn outweighs the risk of making other shooters "nervous".

However, if it is merely one muzzleloader thrown in amongst a bunch of centerfires - the risk of a stray spark is minimized. So your insistence of loading at the line may be justified.

Not to mentione that when you are the RSO, it is your range, your rules. I can respect that.

I would hope however, that you would have some modicum of understanding that when you observe a muzzleloader practicing the normal safety guidelines you would first explain to him your exceptional rules in a kind and polite manner - and not immediately lay into him as though he were stupid and ignorant of "the rules".

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

Black Jaque,

Unfortunately, not all "range safety officers" learn the differences between safely loading a muzzle loading rifle behind the line and shooters using modern rifles that are loaded at the firing line. I am a NRA Training Counselor and Chief Range Safety Officer who regularly teaches the range safety officer (RSO) certification class. The current NRA RSO certification class has a brief section on how to tell if a muzzle loading gun is loaded but that's about all. I make a point of familiarizing my RSO students with range protocol for muzzle loading guns, rifle, pistol, and shotgun in case they should ever get a call to "officiate" at a muzzle loading event.

It is also often true that the RSO with the least amount of knowledge is the most officious and inflexible. I strongly suggest you contact the club management and politely ask that the range standard operating procedures (SOP) be modified to include the safe, behind the line loading of muzzle loading guns. You can refer them to the NMLRA or other muzzle loading club that sponsors competition shooting. That done, be assured even the most officious of "Range-Nazis" will diligently enforce the club's range SOPs.

Excellent post!

I'll bore everybody with all of my credentials in my signature line, lol, but I want to agree with you so much I'd like to buy ya a beer if I ever have the pleasure of meeting you!

What some folks, including Alden, fail to realize is that the potential for someone to shoot OVER an open cap tin at the Firing Line is enough of a problem in & of itself, WITHOUT adding the possibility of a open POUND of Black Powder w/ pouring spout! Same goes for a powder flask leaking a few grains of powder, laying on a table used to both load & FIRE from! Loading BEHIND the Firing Line is not only permissible at EVERY Range / Club that I've ever had the pleasure of being at / invited to, IT'S THE RULE!

Lack of proper training of RSO's is NOT an excuse for ATTITUDE PROBLEMS, so in most cases the Range Nazi's need to "CHILL" when it comes to dealing with Black Powder Shooters. Like simply asking if anyone has a "load down" just after the Range is making ready to go COLD, so during a target change no one is walking in front of a rifle or pistol with a powder charge & ball IN IT, which, under the right circumstances (hot bore, or ignition source like remnants of burning patch in barrel) could lead to an AD. And then letting said shooter finish his/her shot & bench their gun.

Gun handling is NOT ALLOWED, EVER when folks are down-range changing or re-setting targets, and this goes for loading behind the Firing Line as well!


At Ranges with a long line of benches, may I suggest a designated area for Black Powder Shooters, and possibly have that area built with loading tables behind the firing line for just such activities. Putting a roof over the area would be an nice added touch.

Instead of CF Shooters "being afraid" of getting shot in the back by folks loading behind a Firing Line (the SAFEST way possible IMHO), perhaps the Range(s) with this concern could address this issue at some sort of Range Orientation for all new members? At EVERY Range I frequent, the SOP is to have new members of the Range go through a Training Session to advise them of the Range's Rules. Such common SAFETY practices as how to properly handle Black Powder and NOT shoot OVER a table containing spilled powder / flasks / powder cans with spouts is easily explained...

So again, my sincere thanks for a GREAT post!

Dave
NRA CRSO
NRA Life Member
NRA Certified Instructor in Muzzleloading Pistol & Shotgun
NRA Distinguished Expert in Muzzleloading Rifle
NRA Distinguished Expert in Muzzleloading Pistol (the Country's FIRST)
NRA Women's Day at the Range Volunteer Instructor
Muzzleloading Hand Gun & Shotgun Hunter
Competitive Black Powder Shotgun, Rifle & Pistol Shooter at numerous Clubs
NMLRA member & newly appointed Field Representative for Central NJ
Action Pistol (CF) Shooter with both U.S.P.S.A. & I.D.P.A.
Match Director of Police Practical (Silhouette) Competition
Former member of Board of Trustees at Private Shooting Club of almost 1K members

^^^That's why I put all of this at the end, lol! Everybody just be SAFE & have FUN!

 

[curator]

Dave/smoking50:

The NMLRA has an excellent RSO class to train RSOs for their competitive events around the country. Unfortunately, some gun clubs do allow for gun handling (usually cleaning but not loading) when the range is cold and people are downrange posting targets. I am not in favor of this practice but if done (and supervised) correctly and written in their range SOPs, who am I as a guest to protest? I agree with Alden about all of us occasionally making mistakes in loading. Why take a chance?

As an NRA Training Counselor I also train NRA certified muzzle loading rifle/pistol/shotgun instructors for several Boy Scout Councils in South Florida so that they may have muzzle loading shooting at their various camps. Where I can, I insist on NO GUN HANDLING whatsoever when the range is cold and people are forward of the firing line posting targets.

CF shooters and Muzzle loaders can occupy the same range if the RSOs know what they are doing and make the rules understood. I do this all the time when overseeing the Florida Hunter Safety shooting exercise where we have half of the stations occupied by modern rifle shooters and the other half with muzzle loaders. In this situation I have at least one and often more RSOs dedicated to the muzzle loading section to insure the rules are followed and guns handled properly.

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

Curator,

You sound like another guy I wanna spend time with havin' a Beer, lol! I didn't get a chance to write about how your post was also ON POINT, since I had to run to meet a fella for lunch.

About the only time you're allowed to be touching your rifle with others down-range is when you're "Shootin' out-of-the-pouch" at a Woods Walk, where NO benches are available to place firearms in a SAFE DIRECTION away from folks' backs! So you place the butt stock of a witnessed (via range rod) rifle on your boot or on the ground, muzzle-UP! So yeah, technically you're still touching the rifle, but it might as well be a club at that point...

I know & have lots of friends that are NRA TC's. I forgot to list my Scouting creds in my signature line:

BSA Merit Badge Counselor for Rifle & Shotgun
COR for my local Troop for 14 years
Eagle Dad, class of 2006
New member of Shooting Sports Committee of my local Council (just switched Councils)

We have a LOT in common...and we both realize that Youth are our future! Maybe the only difference is I won't shoot at a club where folks are handling firearms during a target change while I'm down range. I'd rather pack my sh!t up & LEAVE, since in 44 years of gun handling I've NEVER tolerated it, and it runs so AGAINST my grain, It would make me upset/distracted & therefore unable to enjoy myself!

Again, GREAT posts on your part as well!

Dave