I know this question has to have been asked several times. When applying aqua fortis and wipe it on the wood do you allow it to soak in and dry before applying heat bring out the striping in the wood. How many coats do you normally apply? Do you apply the wood stain or tung oil after the aqua fortis process is completed? Thank you in advance.
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Proper Steps In Applying Aqua Fortis
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Grizzly Adams
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Once you apply the AF, leave it to dry for at least an hour. You really just keep applying it and blushing (applying heat) until you are satisfied with the color. Rub the wood with fine steel wool after blushing to get rid of the rusty brown appearance the wood will have. Before finishing the wood, you must neutralize it, I use a baking soda and water paste. Slop it on and rinse it off, wood the stock down and let it really dry out. If you don't do this, the stock will continue darkening and nearly turn black over time. Once AF is applied, stain wil not penetrate it. I hope this helps! :hatsoff:
I've never heard of a alcohol based stain not working after aqua fortis was applied.
The aqua fortis isn't an oil based stain so I would think the wood would accept water or alcohol based stains.
I will say one thing though.
If a person has used steel wool on a stock at any time before applying aqua fortis or a water based stain they should never apply the aqua fortis or water based stains to it.
I speak from first hand experiance on this.
On one of my earliest guns, I thought using steel wool to whisker the stock would be a good idea.
I found that the fine pieces of steel wool will break off and get lodged in the surface of the wood.
Once there, they are just about impossible to remove.
Laying there, like the fiends they are, when the aqua fortis or a water based stain is applied, each piece of steel wool will instantly rust and cause a dark freckle which will stain deeply into the wood.
If this happens, sanding off the freckles is the only way to remove them short of painting the wood.
Getting back to the aqua fortis, I've applied thinned alcohol based over the surface and it seemed to work for me.
The aqua fortis isn't an oil based stain so I would think the wood would accept water or alcohol based stains.
I will say one thing though.
If a person has used steel wool on a stock at any time before applying aqua fortis or a water based stain they should never apply the aqua fortis or water based stains to it.
I speak from first hand experiance on this.
On one of my earliest guns, I thought using steel wool to whisker the stock would be a good idea.
I found that the fine pieces of steel wool will break off and get lodged in the surface of the wood.
Once there, they are just about impossible to remove.
Laying there, like the fiends they are, when the aqua fortis or a water based stain is applied, each piece of steel wool will instantly rust and cause a dark freckle which will stain deeply into the wood.
If this happens, sanding off the freckles is the only way to remove them short of painting the wood.
Getting back to the aqua fortis, I've applied thinned alcohol based over the surface and it seemed to work for me.
Sorry but that is mis-information since I know first hand that alcohol based stains at least will penetrate with no problem and I've been using AF for 50 years. Aggressive burnishing of the wood on the other hand can limit absorption.
On the other hand the only time I use any other stain than AF itself is if I want to tweak the color, otherwise nothing else is used since AF will stain the wood on it's own, so no need to use anything else, except if you want to tweak the color.
As for how long to dry before blushing? Ask different users and you'll get different answers.
I have wet and let dry anywhere from an hour to overnight then blushed. Applied and immediately blushed after the liquid was absorbed. And done a combination, which is my general standard procedure these days. In each case it worked just fine with no more variations than one would expect from different pieces of wood.
Using AF is not rocket science and IMO much of the final outcome depends on the wood's density along with the strength of the mix - some of the current commercial mixes tend to be a bit hotter (i.e. the acid wasn't completely "used" up), and the type of steel/iron used. These days I mostly use the ferric nitrate crystals and tweak the mix by the amount of water or alcohol used to liquefy them or I use iron dissolved in vinegar which works much the same, but in my experience I don't quite get as much chatoyance (that opalescence effect) as when I use AF, but it's generally close enough as well as cheaper and much less dangerous to make.
Bottom line based on my own experiences and those of many other craftsman there aren't any absolute rules......
don hepler
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A top rifle builder, told me to use wet/dry sanding paper, that is used in auto body shops. He said the sand will not come off the paper, like regular sand paper. I apply AF and start the blushing process right then. I use Laurel Mountain stains, and have had great success.
I use Household Ammonia (outside) and wipe it on as wet or wetter than the AF
A bowl, soft cloth and rubber gloves, then rinse it well with plain water.
When I do that, one treatment is all that's needed.
I have done the baking soda paste thing, and had rust start at the installed metal. The baking soda wasn't enough to neutralize the AF.
Ammonia does the job. 1 time application.
A bowl, soft cloth and rubber gloves, then rinse it well with plain water.
When I do that, one treatment is all that's needed.
I have done the baking soda paste thing, and had rust start at the installed metal. The baking soda wasn't enough to neutralize the AF.
Ammonia does the job. 1 time application.
AF is the best for brining out the curl in maple. And yes the alcohol based stains WILL work after Aqua fortis.
Using Ferric Nitrate instead of AF eliminates the need for neutralizing. It is the chemical we are trying to achieve when dissolving iron in nitric acid......without the acid.
Good stuff!!
Using Ferric Nitrate instead of AF eliminates the need for neutralizing. It is the chemical we are trying to achieve when dissolving iron in nitric acid......without the acid.
Good stuff!!
Scotch brite pads are also good and can be found in most hardware stores in the paint section.
Dane - I still neutralize when using the crystals because the couple times I didn't I did get some darkening afterwards.
Like necchi I have used ammonia for the last 25 years or so and have never had rust afterwards, which I can not say about the baking soda mix. A good sluicing with water before neutralizing also helps by diluting the AF.
Dane - I still neutralize when using the crystals because the couple times I didn't I did get some darkening afterwards.
Like necchi I have used ammonia for the last 25 years or so and have never had rust afterwards, which I can not say about the baking soda mix. A good sluicing with water before neutralizing also helps by diluting the AF.
Grizzly Adams
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My apologies, I only read on the Internet that stains would not penetrate afterwards- although I have never tried applying stain after AF so I guess I don't know enough to make a valid point. Thanks for catching that.
thank you fellows.....as this will not be my gun, i don't need any goofups~!......i can blame only so much on the kat........
BTW, we keep a outside-on-the-porch tomkat, he keeps the chipmonks/mice etc down....and he has a little house with straw and a water dish, and his food dish....which is kept full all the time(the rodents still get termiated as i have seen)...anyhow....heard a ruckus this weekend, and looked out, the tom was whipping the neighbors beagle dog....and i mean a whipping plumb off the porch!....then in about a hour the neighbors OTHER beagle thought this food dish was easy pickins....well....he got whipped off also....and i mean screaching/howling running whith tail tucked...... :haha:
the three other beagles just stayed out in the yard for a moment or two....and ran off back home.....the 'porch tom' just went back up on the bench.....and back to sleep..... :youcrazy:
i no longer have the meanest dog on the block.....just don't touch the kats food dish.... :surrender:
marc n tomtom
BTW, we keep a outside-on-the-porch tomkat, he keeps the chipmonks/mice etc down....and he has a little house with straw and a water dish, and his food dish....which is kept full all the time(the rodents still get termiated as i have seen)...anyhow....heard a ruckus this weekend, and looked out, the tom was whipping the neighbors beagle dog....and i mean a whipping plumb off the porch!....then in about a hour the neighbors OTHER beagle thought this food dish was easy pickins....well....he got whipped off also....and i mean screaching/howling running whith tail tucked...... :haha:
the three other beagles just stayed out in the yard for a moment or two....and ran off back home.....the 'porch tom' just went back up on the bench.....and back to sleep..... :youcrazy:
i no longer have the meanest dog on the block.....just don't touch the kats food dish.... :surrender:
marc n tomtom
More than one dog has ended up with a big tomcat on his back with its claws sunk in riding it like a jockey down the street with a kii, yii, yii announcing their presence.
Anyway, I know I risk verbal assaults for saying it but I'm not overly fond of aqua fortis.
As I've mentioned before, the outcome is totally unpredictable because the final color is the result of the aqua fortis being used and the piece of wood it's being used on.
It may end up light, dark or somewhere in between. You never know until you've tried it on the piece of wood you have. :hmm:
Anyway, I know I risk verbal assaults for saying it but I'm not overly fond of aqua fortis.
As I've mentioned before, the outcome is totally unpredictable because the final color is the result of the aqua fortis being used and the piece of wood it's being used on.
It may end up light, dark or somewhere in between. You never know until you've tried it on the piece of wood you have. :hmm:
Ken Cormier
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Thanks guys cool info in this thread.
Grizzly Adams
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In a way I agree. I have used it on one of my guns and I have seen it look extremely good on other guns, but it is just not that controllable when you need it to be and it seems too variable when you don't. I have found it way too easy to make one side of a gun darker than the other, don't asks how I know :surrender: it does do a really nice job of popping curl though. It seems when you blush one spot and then blush another, I find that some places want to blush more than others. Maybe varying densities in the wood or possibly the AF going on thin there.
Zonie,
If I use it in the PB and barrel channel 1st......would that tell me about the woods outcome?
I like stain.....but I will do what the fellow wants me to.....he reads this column......maybe he can PM with his ideas......I will do either he wants.....but I like stain :grin:
Marc n tomtom
If I use it in the PB and barrel channel 1st......would that tell me about the woods outcome?
I like stain.....but I will do what the fellow wants me to.....he reads this column......maybe he can PM with his ideas......I will do either he wants.....but I like stain :grin:
Marc n tomtom
When your building a gun for someone, their desires come first and foremost.
If he wants it painted with camo, that's his call. Your only good response to something as dumb as camo on a flintlock is, "I refuse to build it. Find another builder."
Anyway, yes, applying it in the barrel channel will give a good idea of what it's going to do. Just make sure the wood in the area your trying it on is as smooth as the rest of the stock.
Also be careful when you apply the heat.
In a barrel channel, it's pretty easy to overheat the wood and char it.
If he wants it painted with camo, that's his call. Your only good response to something as dumb as camo on a flintlock is, "I refuse to build it. Find another builder."
Anyway, yes, applying it in the barrel channel will give a good idea of what it's going to do. Just make sure the wood in the area your trying it on is as smooth as the rest of the stock.
Also be careful when you apply the heat.
In a barrel channel, it's pretty easy to overheat the wood and char it.
A friend of mine liked an AF stain job so much he tried to do it on a piece of furniture he had built. Bad results. Further research indicates that AF reacts (colours)(sorry, Cdn.spelling) differently on each different piece of wood. Luckily, gun stocks are 1 piece of wood, so most of the time it works. Repeatability on the next stock is iffy.
Paul
Paul
Stophel
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You know, I've really not found it to be that "unpredictable". :idunno:
Sugar maple colors a more orangey brown color. Red maple (which I generally avoid) turns a more brown brown color.
If you want to build an 18th/19th century flintlock rifle that actually looks like an 18th/19th century flintlock rifle, you use Aqua Fortis. :wink:
I have tried "Vinegaroon" on maple, but for me, THAT is the real unpredictable stuff. I've always had HORRIBLE results with vinegaroon anyway when trying to color leather... why would wood do any different??? :haha: Last year, I FINALLY got a batch of vinegaroon that would color maple an aqua-fortis-y sort of color. Didn't look bad. Sort of dull, and not nearly as clear and bright as A.F., but ok. Well, it sat in my shop and froze during the winter. After that, it made a funky purplish brown color. So I make up a new jar full. Again, funky purple. So I have quit fooling with it entirely.
Sugar maple colors a more orangey brown color. Red maple (which I generally avoid) turns a more brown brown color.
If you want to build an 18th/19th century flintlock rifle that actually looks like an 18th/19th century flintlock rifle, you use Aqua Fortis. :wink:
I have tried "Vinegaroon" on maple, but for me, THAT is the real unpredictable stuff. I've always had HORRIBLE results with vinegaroon anyway when trying to color leather... why would wood do any different??? :haha: Last year, I FINALLY got a batch of vinegaroon that would color maple an aqua-fortis-y sort of color. Didn't look bad. Sort of dull, and not nearly as clear and bright as A.F., but ok. Well, it sat in my shop and froze during the winter. After that, it made a funky purplish brown color. So I make up a new jar full. Again, funky purple. So I have quit fooling with it entirely.
