puzzling 18th-century shot terms

[Artificer]

Since lead mining and manufacture goes back to the Roman period in Bristol, England - I wonder if "Bristol Shot" simply meant shot that was manufactured there no matter how it was made?

There is also the phrase "Shipshape and Bristol Fashion" that refers to everything being "squared away" or correct and good. This phrase seems to have been no earlier than Circa 1803, BUT could the term "Bristol" have been used as an adjective of good quality for some time prior to that and especially for shot?

Gus

The term comes from the fact that Bristol, aside from having been a centre for shipping trade since medieval times, was also the home of the Royal Dockyards, where many ships of the Nelsonian-era Royal Navy were built. The term came into use to imply that whatever it had been applied to was made to the same high standards as those required of the nation's navy - correctly-done, and exactly as per plan.

tac

Quite so. Do you happen to know if the term had been used prior to that time as a statement of quality "in civilian use/jargon?"

Very much enjoyed reading your post on Prince Rupert. I, too, learned things about him I did not know from it. :thumbsup:

Gus

 

[Artificer]

In "Firearms on the Frontier: Guns at Fort Michillimackinac: 1715-1781", by T. M. Hamilton, a noted archeologist, the author describes what Rupert shot looks like when correctly made.

"Since not enough time elapsed in the drop to form a perfect sphere, the resulting shot is slightly ovoid in cross-section and has a slight dimple on the more flattened side."

In "Colonial Frontier Guns," Hamilton shows a picture of a sectionalized Rupert shot that really shows the dimple.

At the Michillimackinac site only two types of shot were found, cast and Rupert. He says, "Though drop shot, invented in 1769, could well be present, none was observed in the samples submitted."

The archeologists seem to use 1769 as the date at which Watts drop shot was beginning to replace Rupert shot. According to generally accepted history, Watts began modifying his house to make the first shot tower in 1775, but he must have been doing some work before that. They also generally use two separate terms, Rupert shot and drop shot, not the same thing. It would be nice if we knew whether the people of the time did the same.

Spence

I don't know about you, but I sometimes get a bit confused when reading Hamilton's comments between the historic documentation of drop shot and Hamilton's use of the term "drop shot" that he means in the later to more modern sense, i.e. shot dropped from a Tower. So I sometimes have to go back and read it two or three times. So as not to confuse a modern reader, I think Hamilton uses the term "Rupert Shot" so often in his works to distinguish it as what they in the period meant when they wrote about "Drop Shot," before Watts invented or perfected shot dropped from a Tower. So it is quite possible the term "Rupert Shot" may be just an archeologist's term for modern exactness in reporting findings, rather than a period term.

In another thread that discussed shot to some degree, was it you who had documentation that "Tail'd/Tailed shot" was in fact shot made from an imperfect replication of making Rupert Shot and probably from not using Arsenic?

Gus

 

[George]

Don't believe I posted about that. I agree that those tailed shot are the result of poorly made Rupert shot, and that the idea of calling them swan shot is a modern reenactorism.

Some accounts say the only reason Watts had success is that the particular mine he got lead ore from had natural arsenic in it. Adding arsenic to the lead to make it form spheres more easily was certainly done, and I recently saw evidence of that in reading about Moses Austin, who ran the lead mines in Wythe Co., Virginia, near Jackson Ferry shot tower. In discussing the British patent for drop shot, he wrote in 1791, "by experience I have found a much better mode to introduce arsnic and find the white much preferable to the yellow from its purity in strength. And that a material difference of the height is required in the Climate of America in the different seasons of the year."

Spence

 

[Artificer]

Thanks for the clarification and further information.
Gus

 

[TFoley]

Quite so. Do you happen to know if the term had been used prior to that time as a statement of quality "in civilian use/jargon?"

Very much enjoyed reading your post on Prince Rupert. I, too, learned things about him I did not know from it. :thumbsup:

Gus

Not quality, but correct done, as in 'properly' done.

Quote - 'Ship-shape and Bristol fashion' is actually two phrases merged into one. Ship-shape came first and has been used since the 17th century. It is recorded in Sir Henry Manwayring's The sea-mans dictionary, 1644:

"It [the rake] being of no use for the Ship, but only for to make her Ship shapen, as they call it."

Bristol fashion was added later and is first seen in print during Bristol's heyday as a trading port, in the early 19th century; for example, this extract from John Davis' Travels of four years and a half in the United States of America, 1803:

...says I to the girl, "this is neither ship-shape, nor Bristol fashion."

Admiral William Henry Smyth's 1865 Sailor's Word-book - an alphabetical digest of nautical terms, which is a treasure trove of nautically inspired phrases, has a definition of the phrase:

"Said when Bristol was in its palmy commercial days - and its shipping was all in proper good order."

End quote.

tac

 

[Artificer]

Thank you for the further information.

I was wondering if the mention of the term "Bristol" might have been something like the period use of "High" that meant higher quality.

Gus

 

[George]

I'm not aware that the term 'high' was used in that way. In ads of the day, describing goods and services of all types for sale, the term 'neat' seems most frequently used. Neat didn't mean Cool, I like it, as it does today, but good, better, best, as in neat, very neat, neatest.

1753 Wilson's neatest fowling pieces , with bayonets to drop in the butt
1756 HAS to sell a parcel of very neat rifle-barrel guns
1762 a parcel of neat cocking and squirrel pieces
1762 neat fowling pieces with and without bayonets
1772 a very neat new FOWLING PIECE
1774 He likewise makes all Sorts of SHOT GUNS, such as straight Rifles, Cocking pieces, Fuzees, &c. in the best and neatest Manner
1774 a very neat Pocket Pistol, the stock mounted and inlaid with silver, on which at the end of the barrel is the figure of a squirrel maker’s name T. KETLAND,
1775 dyes and cleans all kinds of silks, in the neatest and best manner;
1781 gentlemen may be supplied with Guns and Pistols of the neatest and best quality
They also blue and brown Gun Barrels in the neatest manner

High? Mostly plain description. It may have been used in the sense of a measure of quality as we use it today, but I haven't collected an example of that.

1746 mill'd Stockings and high heel'd Shoes
1751 high top buck skin gloves
1761 swan shot, high duck , low duck, pidgeon and bird shot
1769 and whilst engaged in those ungenteel practices his conversation is filled with filth and the highest corruption
1794 an high crowned round hat... stout built fellow, about 5 feet 7 inches high
1795 near 20 years of age, 5 feet 10 inches high

Spence

 

[Artificer]

Good points about the period term "Neat."

I first ran across the 18th century use of the term "High" meaning higher or better quality when I visited The Rising Sun Tavern in Fredericksburg, VA in 1974. They had documentation that the Tavern was a "High Tavern," as opposed to a common Tavern. In that sense a "High Tavern" meant respectable women and families could eat and stay there without losing their reputations. The "Common" or "Low Taverns" near the river were only frequented by females of "Ill Repute."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rising_Sun_Tavern_(Fredericksburg,_Virginia)

I have also seen it mentioned in descriptions of "A" or "The High Road" meaning the best developed roads or turnpikes.

Gus