Pyramid Tents Question

Foxriver traders claims there is mention of them back to 1820, but does not give reference. There is evidence of their use in the 1840s. They are also called 'miner's tents' and were used during gold rush days (1850s). They probably did not 'spring up' all of a sudden in 1840s, but I have not seen the documentation for their early use. As I do F&I War, the only choices for me rule out pyramids entirely, so I have not researched them further. Most folks who do rondys use them for pre 1840 buckskinning events, but the more purist events have banned them.

 

this is Sage from his writings.
Preparations for leaving. Scenes at Camp. Things as they appeared. Simplicity of mountaineers. Sleep in the open air. Character, habits, and costume of mountaineers. Heterogeneous ingredients of Company. The commandant. En route. Comical exhibition and adventure with a Spanish company. Grouse. Elm Grove. A storm. Santa Fe traders. Indian battle.

AFTER many vexatious delays and disappointments, the time was at length fixed for our departure, and leaving Independance on the 2d of September, I proceeded to join the encampment without the state line. It was nearly night before I reached my destination, and the camp-fires were already lighted, in front of which the officiating cook was busily engaged in preparing the evening repast. To the windward were the dusky forms of ten or fifteen men, —some standing, others sitting a la Turk, and others half-reclining or quietly extended at full length upon the ground, —watching the operative of the culinary department with great seeming interest.

Enchairing myself upon a small log, I began to survey the surrounding objects. In the back ground stood four large Connestoga waggons, with ample canvass tops, and one dearborn, all tastefully drawn up in crescent form. To the right a small pyramid-shaped tent , with its snow-white covering, disclosed itself to the eye, and presented an air of comfort.
Rufus Sage travelled thru the rockies from 1841 to 1843 however, FoxRiver traders mentions that he stayed in one, I find that nowhere in Sages books. However if what he describes is a pyramid tent as we know it, it's quite possible he had not seen the first of it's kind. Nowhere does it mention a tipi of canvas or a camp using one.

 

[Holley]

Ok...he says of "shape"...and a diamond shelter also has a pyrimid shape when set up and has been referred to as such. But the name was not used as a Name as we would use the name..wedge or wall tent. As for a "cloth" tipi, they started coming around durring and after the 1840s'by those Natives who could afford enough linen or "canvas" material to start making them. Still interesting comments on tent materials.

 

take it for what its worth, it's good enough for the amm to add it to the research list. there is more research out there other than this list. I'm surprised that so many do not use this research material. My wife has bought me so many books in the last few years and for each one we bought I find everything i'm wanting to know on these list that the AMM puts on the website. The AMM site and[url] braintan.com[/url] does just about everything for me, from beadworking to campsites.

 

[RJR]

I started using one in 1978 after seeing a picture and reading about one in the Museum of the Fur Trade in Chadron that summer. They may still have that information I saw then, it was referrencing something in 1836, but I can't remember exactly what. Hope this helps.

Rick.

 

[Doc Arroyo]

Yep I would buy it again. Usually I am on the jury for the events out here, but they are 1843, 1846 and 1853, so no one spouts much bilge about the shape.

I do like Panther's version better than any of the almost tipi's that some tent maker's sell. Panther's is a breze to set up, four stakes and a pole. If you can haul longer poles, they are really nice in a 2 pole set up.

 

[Holley]

I am also on Brian[url] Tan.com[/url]...and know that we still do a great deal of research in all areas. But for my beadwork research, other than the vast collection of original books and materials I personally own, I use the PIS site. They are the group that writes the books you read, restore the beaded/Quilled items for museums, do the remarkable recreations that can pass for the originals and have the biggest photographic/research library you ever want to see. And it is all open to anyone who asks the questions....They deal in materials from the 1700 to 20th. century. And....they keep an open mind.:imo:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PlainsIndianSeminartwo/?yguid=99695231

 

[bnail]

Nice Tent Doc, and while I was looking at it, I realized, this threard's disagreeing over nothing.
I've two splittings wedges in my garage, a straight wedge and a pointy one called a wood grenade, So, I figger, what the heck, we just call that tent of yours a "pointy wedge" as opposed to the "straight wedge"! :crackup: :crackup:

 

[Mike Moore]

Tipis,
There are very few diamond shelters shown in fur trade pictures. In fact, I know of only one= Father Nicholas Point painted a miniature showing three people hundled under a lean to/fly cover while a storm is really blowing hard.
But, I also must say that tipis are correct winter quarters [or cold weather camp] shelters for trappers. I have maybe a hand full of descriptions of this. I do not think they hauled the lodges around all year, but did sleep in them while staying at the various tribe's villages and when winter came, a few chose to stay in lodges.
The pyramind shelter can be shown to come close to the 1840 date like others have said. But they seem to be found in the years just after the years the rendezvous ran. Susan Magoffin used a variation.
In journals, description of this style shelters can be hard to visualize, but they are revolve around being called a one pole canvas tent. There were alot of choices for people to use when looking for a shelter: marques (which traders and some of the tourists used), wedges (that showed up at rendezvous and was used by fur companys), half domes (trappers and Sage writes on this one) simple blankets as sun shades and to stop the rain and last but not least no shelter. Which is found more than most want to recongize. Any tent blocks views on the camp, makes easy targets on the people using them and is something else to haul on horse back on in a wagon. A few men note that shelters only came out when bad weather came.
mike.

 

[Holley]

Ok...let me clarify something here, I am not talking tipis nor say anything about them being used by traders. Someone mentioned "liners" and I wanted some visual or written proof of what was being stated.

As for Diamond Shelters vs. Pyrimids, I am only questioning what some are suddenly saying is proof that they were used in the pre-1840s without being named Pyrimids by the author or painter. As a artists, it is esly to draw and paint an object to look like a certain shape...but that does not mean it is the object we later say it is....

So, I am just jousting with suggestions of knowledge trying to get others to look at their material in other lights, not saying they are wrong or right. Just, what is the documented material to back up any statement made on Pyrimid tents at an early time frame. :m2c:

 

IMHO,.... If an eye-witness to the camp (which Rufus Sage surely was) says:.... "To the right a small pyramid-shaped tent, with its snow-white covering, disclosed itself to the eye, and presented an air of comfort.".... I'm led to take him at his word, and what he actually saw was a pyramid-shaped "tent", and not a pyramid-shaped "shelter". The word "tent" was not tossed around lightly in the written diaries and accounts by the mountaineers dur'n thet era of history.

YMHS
rollingb

 

[Holley]

I agree with what you are trying to say...but..."Pyrimid SHAPED tent" does not make an item a Pyrimid Tent. Only in the shape of a triangle or pyrimid which a diamond can also be. So....we have a questionalble use of terminalogy here.
I still have never seen a picture of a Pyrimid made tent with all four sides sewn with door of that time period. Would love to see more evidence of this for reference. :imo:

 

Tipis,.... Out of pure curosity, have you seen paintings (or, historical references) document'n pyramid-shaped ("diamond") shelters?

YMHS
rollingb

 

[Doc Arroyo]

Sorry tipis. You will not get it. We can't give you photographic evidence since there weren't any photographers in the west prior to the California Gold rush. So I guess that the entire idea of sewing four triangular pieces of canvas together, staking the four corners and putting a pole in the middle instantly spung from the ground as soon as photgraphers came to California! Thats it - photographers invented the pyramid tent!!!!

Anyway, this is not the place for a silly pissing contest. Jeff was not asking about the historical correctness. He was asking if people that owned them would buy them again.

Jeff, as I said, I would buy it in a heart beat! eace:

 

[freetrapper20]

Granted, Panther is trying to sell a product. In their catalog they mention use during and after the fur trade. They mention Rufus Sage in 1841, Parkman's party in 1846 and also claim that there are other references to support that this tent was used as early as 1820.
Maybe someone can give them a ring and see if they will devulge their sources and references. :hmm:

 

[Holley]

This was NOT ment to be a Pissing contest...which some have turned it into or a confrontation. I am not asking for photographic evidance knowing that is impossible. But I am asking for written documentation that might have been out there that is not so argumentative as to description or wordiness. Army regulations for manufacture of tents is very specific down to the stitches per inch, even to the Revolutionary war tents and before. Maybe there are some trade papers that have this type or style of tent on the books. When I ask certain tent makers for backup of some styles...all I get is a vague answer or it could have been done or someone somewhere mentioned a shape.

But, we are not open to more documentation of here-say material ....so I will take my efforts to find some, else where. I only[url] asked...in[/url] the same vein as is it "ok to have them"....what was documentation as to their being made. So...on to more intersting problems of the world. :sleep: :sorry: :blah:

 

[halfstock]

Sent an email to your posted address with an attachment of the pic, i would have put it here but have no idea how to accomplish that.
aYou'll notice quite a few of the questioned tents .

halfstock

 

[Holley]

I did get it and thanks. You have a long reply coming on that wnderful picture. Thanks again...that is what I am asking for in a discussion on tents...some basic information where it answeres the question or not.

:thumbsup:

 

[Trina]

I am thinking about getting a pyramid tent, and was looking for some feedback about a pyramid style vs. other styles-pros/cons etc. Those of you who have pyramid tents, would you get that style again, or opt for another? I'm not too concerned about being period accurate. Also, any recommendations for a maker of quality canvas tents?

This is the original post and question.. He did not ask if it was PC or not... Please stay on topic.

 

[Dave Poss]

Interesting thread! The way I see it,is that paintings, drawings and journals are all we have in our attempt to depict an era prior to the invention of the camera. Our language has changed alot through the years and the visual is basically all we have to go by. Just because a journal entry doesn't describe something in the same vernacular we currently use , is no reason to discard the accompanying drawing or painting of the item as non-valid. My opinion; and that's all it is...is if it looks like a Pyrimid tent in the artwork, then accept it as such.
:m2c: