Pyrodex Cleaning issues?

[SDSmlf]

Only if you can’t get blackpowder, at least in my opinion.

 

[lenl349]

so basically it's a temporary, less effective substitute?

 

[Carbon 6]

so basically it's a temporary, less effective substitute?

I wouldn't say "less effective"
I won a lot of shoots and killed a lot of game using pyrodex.

 

[mooman76]

I have had no problems with Pyrodex and it shoots well. The only down side I see is difficult to use with flintlocks. You almost assuredly need a small amount of black as a prime to get the Pyrodex to fire so it can stretch out your black if you need to. I'd rather shoot black and since I do have some now, I will stop using Pyrodex when it is gone as long as I can get black. It cleans about the same but does corrode quicker but that is not an issue to me because I clean my gun right away.

 

[user 34300]

Sulfuric acid is formed when sulfur is dissolved by water. Any free sulfur present in blackpowder residue will pick up moisture from the air and there's your acid attack.

Sulfur is insoluble in water. Your statement is incorrect.

 

[Okie Hog]

This stuff is easy. Whatever powder you use simply clean your gun.

In 2000 i bought a CVA rifle for $85. That old cheap gun has fired well over 3,000 rounds, nearly all using Pyrodex. The bore looks new.

read all the comments. Is there a big advantage to using Pyrodex?

Availability, nearly every gun store has the stuff. Price: Black powder is unavailable in many locations: Folks got to order the stuff and pay a hazmat fee.

 

[bradly_tx]

Just don't use it. I bet I can see the results in the BPCR you used it in given the opportunity to check. Does it still have bluing in the bore? Few due if used much with it. Pyrodex needs warm/hot water and lots of it
B.S.

Just don't use it. I bet I can see the results in the BPCR you used it in given the opportunity to check. Does it still have bluing in the bore? Few due if used much with it. Pyrodex needs warm/hot water and lots of it

B.S.

 

[rdlowe]

The letters BS aren’t very informative, especially to newcomers.

 

[Dphar1950]

I have heard ALL this before. As I think I may have previously stated, I have examined firearms of various sorts shot with this stuff over the years. I used to be the man determined if the barrel of the guns with "bad bores" were under warranty or not. You see the company stated that if you used this stuff the warranty of the barrel was void. There was barrels replaced because they were chambered with an oversized reamer, one whole lot of one chambering once since they used a SAAMI spec reamer and DID NOT LET ME MEASURE IT BEFORE USE (these were brass suppository guns). In my experience people who have used this stuff simply will not SEE THE PITTING until its pointed out. One percussion revolver was reblued (the fouling is a great bluing remover and will pull the blue from the bore with relatively little use) rifle over the pits which were pretty impressive on and around the cyl face. But when I told this guy, in the factory, that we would not warrant barrels shot with the stuff he told me he had the revolver he always shot the stuff in and it was never pitted. I asked if he had it with him. He did. It was laughable when I looked it it in the parking lot, but I am too polite to laugh at people. I DID point out the pits, however, which apparently, even though they would have removed any lettering had their been any there. Think what you like. I have never seen gun shot with this stuff that I could not tell by looking what had been used.
Oh and if you have shot the stuff to any extent at all. Put the bore under magnification and actually look. Especially if it was hot tank blued when made and the bore is "white". I didn't just fall off a turnip truck. But of course everyone is an expert and has an opinion. I did not post any opinion, just what I have seen over the years and what I know to be true from the observations. I am pretty close to a major highway. If you run on I-90 in MT you will be within 2 miles driving distance of my house. So if you have something shot with pyrodex more than a few shots, bring it buy and see if I can tell. Bring some shot with only BP too. I have 4 guns from the 1970s, all flint. ! is pretty badly abused buy some former owner, one has been shot a lot in hunting matches and for fun, its clean I have owned it since about 1990. 2 are a pair of pistols that the maker purchased back, after he retired from the trade. He then gave to a freind, when the freind passed he got the pistol back but it had not been cleaned well. Its bore is somewhat damaged but it does not look like the replica powder pitting I have seen and can be shot and cleaned with very little difficulty. The damaged rifle is only in the breech end of the barrel the muzzle still looks good, normal, down for 20" or so. And the pitting does not look like Chlorate pits. Nor did a ML bullet rifle I looked at about 30 odd years ago.
Cheers.

 

[smo]

The letters BS aren’t very informative, especially to newcomers.

I thought it meant Britsmoothy......

 

[bradly_tx]

I have done testing. I have used the stuff in company guns. I have examined guns used with the stuff. I have had people I trust tell me things. LIke the freind who knows how, who shot the stuff in an original 1869 Springfield and it took a YEAR to get the after rust stopped. Finally pulled it from the wood and went into the shower washed it well and got the rust stopped. Its simply not possible to say "they did not clean it properly" and write off the problem to this. Simply wiping a time or 3 in the course of a long match will eat the blue from the inside of a hot tank blued barrel and set up a pit and then its almost unstoppable. The active ingredient in the old corrosive primers was a fraction of a grain. In this stuff it's 15 to 40% of the charge weight. As I have stated before. I have never examined a rifle shot with the stuff that I could not tell what propellant was used simply by looking. The interesting part is many of the owners don't even see the pits until they are pointed to saying "this is pitting". Yeah, BTDT. AND it does not even LOOK the same as neglected arms used with BP. I have been shooting BP firearms since the mid-1960s. Building MLs since the late 60s. I can count the corroded barrels used with BP on one hand. I cannot say the same for arms used with the stuff under discussion here. Remember when it first came out the firearms press, some gunwriters, were touting it as NON-CORROSIVE. I am sure tens of thousands of guns were ruined as a result based on what a friend working in a California gun shop at the time told me. A builder from Europe wrote of taking a barrel to the proof house and mentioning P-dex and the men in the proof house told him it "would eat holes in the barrel". EVERY substitute powder I know of is a remake or is based on a 19th c powder that was abandoned for various reason. Sugar powder for example, and it been made in recent times. It will suck up water to the point the liquid can be poured from a horn or flask or will drip form it while hanging in the shooters house. Highly corrosive mixtures that, like the stuff being mentioned here, were too aggressive for use. But since BP is labeled a class A explosive its increasingly hard to find and people use alternatives since they cannot be bothered or don't know they can order BP and have it shipped to them.
So if you doubt me? Go the hardware store or welding shop and get a flat bar of steel 1-2" wide. Only need be a 12"-18" long. Degrease and polish it well on one surface so its nice and clean. Put a sheet of paper over one end and flash a small amount 10 gr perhaps, of P-dex on one end, cover this fouling with a sheet of paper (its to prevent cross contamination) and flash 10 gr of real BP on the other end. Now simply put it on a shelf for 2 weeks or so. Then take some photos and let us know how it came out. Yeah I did this almost 40 years ago. I KNOW what will happen.

B.S.

 

[bradly_tx]

Just a note that it seems everyone miss, when cleaning with water one should use boiling hot water with soup and also with clean fusing water

Not necessarily my friend

 

[bradly_tx]

The letters BS aren’t very informative, especially to newcomers.

Whatever

 

[nhmoose]

read all the comments. Is there a big advantage to using Pyrodex?

When you live in a state that you cannot get BP it is the powder to go to.

 

[Okie Hog]

h and if you have shot the stuff to any extent at all. Put the bore under magnification and actually look.

i just now checked my old CVA gun that has fired over 3,000 rounds using Pyrodex. Did that with my rather costly Hawkeye borescope. The only pits are where the powder charge sat.

Clean your gun and you won't have any problem with black powder or any of the substitutes.

 

[lenl349]

Just made the leap and picked up a .50 cal. Investarms sidelock. haven't shot it yet.
I bought the Hodgdon Triple Se7en FFG and a pack of Winchester Triple Se7en 209 primers. Did I do the right thing? don't yell at me it was all I could get

 

[mooman76]

Do you have the adapter for 209 primers?

 

[SDSmlf]

Just made the leap and picked up a .50 cal. Investarms sidelock. haven't shot it yet.
I bought the Hodgdon Triple Se7en FFG and a pack of Winchester Triple Se7en 209 primers. Did I do the right thing? don't yell at me it was all I could get

The Investarms side locks have a reputation of being good solid muzzleloaders. If it’s in good shape you won’t be disappointed. Triple Sev7en 2FF may work in your gun, though many prefer real blackpowder, and some use Pyrodox. You will not know until you try.

As far as 209 primers, they likely won’t work unless you have an adapter as Mooman76 mentioned. Most people use #11 percussion caps on traditional side lock guns, and most likely, that is what your new gun will require. Another thing, this being a ‘traditional’ muzzleloading forum we do not discuss use of 209 primers.

Good luck with your new gun. Have you confirmed it’s not still loaded from the previous owner? It’s been known to happen. Have you gotten your other supplies, such as round balls, patch material and maybe a range rod? If you have questions, just ask, folks here will be glad to help.

 

[lenl349]

I knew I made a mistake. Didn't know you needed an adaptor. Only got them because I couldn't find #11 caps.
got all my other supplies. will probably return the primers and hold off until I can get the #11s and maybe a backup can of black powder. thanks for the help

 

[mooman76]

They make a #11 Mag cap. Works better with BP subs if/when you can find them.