Pyrodex dilemma

[hrchotaw]

I'm all for it. I'm still using cans I bought 10 years ago. All I had said was triple 7 is higher,(and I dont like it). Use the pyrodex and save the the money if possible!

 

[No Grease]

As long as the can has remained closed up it is good. Take it out and have some fun.

 

[ozark57]

I don't like wastin' good powder and save all he money I can. But, I would chuck the Pyrodex.

 

[CharlesZ]

I don't like wastin' good powder and save all he money I can. But, I would chuck the Pyrodex.

Why?

 

[ozark57]

I don't like wastin' good powder and save all he money I can. But, I would chuck the Pyrodex.

Why?

There are seveal factors that catches my attention on your post. First, you have been using bp regularly so it is your "standard" powder. To get full potential out of any gun, the first thing to do is minimize variables. You always will have variables such as the wind, humidity, and you. Changing powders from a known standard introduces a variable that is not necessary. A bp gun should be thought of as a system with certain requirements to obtain the results that you require.
The main thing is you. You have two cans half full of Pyrodex, which has worried you enouph to start this thread. A pound of bp will cost you $20 or so and I would think be well worth it not to wonder if you could have shot better, or if that misfire was the powder or?

 

[Rat Trapper]

If you are getting a crude ring in your bore with Triple Seven, then you are not shooting a tradional rifle! Don't happen with tradional rifles. Works just fine in my TC Hawken rifles. Can't say for what it does in cheap imports, cause I don't have any.

 

[CharlesZ]

I love ya' Ozark57 and an Arkansan named A.J. Burnett is throwing tonight and will hopefully pitch my team to it's 27th World Championship, but hell, you take this stuff way more serious than I do. I like tight groups as much as the next guy but hearing the Enfield go boom while a battle line of johnnies is running at me, madly screaming the rebel yell, priceless. :wink:

 

[lonehunter]

We gotta find you a new team :rotf: and you are on the wrong side of the battle line. man, you are confused :haha: :v
just kidding. GO Phillies
:v

 

[Billnpatti]

The reason for the different burning in your gun when firing blanks is due to the fact that all of the substitutes are actually a form of smokeless powder. Smokeless, when ignited in the open just burns while black powder almost explodes it burns so fast. Smokeless powders need compression to burn rapidly. If a smokeless powder such as one of the substitutes is poured down the bore of a gun, it will not have enough compression to cause it to burn rapidly enough to produce a bang. You could solve this problem by using a paper wad on top of any substitute powder that you use for a blank charge. When I was into reinacting, we used to make up paper cartridges which we tore open to pour the powder down the bore, We then would ram the paper down on top of the powder. This works quite well but you have to be aware of the fire hazards of any burning or smoldering paper. We always had a few fire watch people hidden in the crowd in case any grass caught fire. When we used black powder, the wads were not needed. Later, we found that if you dipped the paper in a solution of boric acid and let it dry before rolling the cartridges, it would not burn but it added to the need for thorough cleaning of your gun.

 

[hrchotaw]

I have shot triple 7 in a 36 t/c seneca,last time I checked that was a traditional m/z. And I do get a crud ring. Or maybe thats just my gun.And yes its fffg trip7.

 

[hrchotaw]

I forgot to add in my last post that many of us shoot cheap imports out of necessity or just plain don't have the money for something better (due to stuff like kids ,bills,life,etc.etc.).I have interpretted this forum to allow all traditional topics even if the gun didn't originate on this side of the big water.I'm sure we all aspire to someday own pricey custom guns, who knows maybe I,ll hit the lotto!!! Sorry if my problem with the crud ring doesn't happen to any traditional rifle besides my seneca,I had better check that barrel to make sure it doesn't say "CHEAP IMPORT".

 

[paulvallandigham]

Your Seneca is not a 'cheap Import", and the crud rings from using Triple 7 is not unique to your gun. One of the reasons us old-timers still recommend Black Powder to new shooters, is that you don't have the kind of problems with BP that you will with any of the substitutes. I went years before I even owned a BORE BRUSH for my BP rifle- I bought one at Friendship one year " just in case". I don't think I have ever used it for more than speeding up cleaning the gun when I was trying to get to bed after a long day.

With any of the subs, I don't know how you can possibly clean them without a Bore Brush, and if you are shooting a long range session, you should have a cleaning rod with the bore brush on it at the range with you. You will also need some modern solvents to dissolve and loosen that crud. Soap and Water will work, but take much more time to do so. ( hours and even days)

On top of the hard crud rings, you often will have plastic build up in guns that are shooting plastic sabots, and pistol bullets. That plastic requires modern solvents to remove- I don't know of any soap and water that does that. Perhaps using Hydrogen Peroxide in the barrel on a damp patch will clean out plastic. I don't dare try it, for fear of what the HP will do to my barrels.

I know a large( 3" square) cleaning patch soaked in Shooter's choice, and run down the barrel of my 12 gauge shotgun in and on a Bore Brush, so that I can scrub loose, and chemically dissolve the plastic works. :hmm: :hatsoff:

 

[BrownBear]

Sorry if my problem with the crud ring doesn't happen to any traditional rifle besides my seneca,I had better check that barrel to make sure it doesn't say "CHEAP IMPORT".

I've had it happen with Lyman, Traditions, Pedersoli, Navy Arms, and even TC and Green River Rifle Works, both made right here on this side of the salt puddle. And all "traditional" if anyone will let me use that term in a puritan world.

It's just one factor to know about and deal with when shooting with subs, cheap guns or expensive. Like I always say, you can learn to deal with the quirks of subs and keep shooting until you manage some black, or you can quit shooting when black isn't available for a little while or a long while.

BTW- I don't get the crud ring when shooting black, but I sure get the crud ring of reality when trying to ship black onto a remote island! :rotf:

 

[ozark57]

Ring around the bore, hard fouling, corrosion, higher price. Am I missing something here?

 

[CharlesZ]

I've been shooting bp exclusively since I got back into the sport. Like I said, I've finished the bp and now I'm going to use up my pyrodex. I'm anxious to see the differences in accuracy, charge volume, effectiveness after 20 yrs and fouling. It'll be interesting and I'll report back here after a few range trips.

 

[Herb]

I have shot quite a bit of Pyrodex RS and Triple 7 2F and 3F in testing my "traditional" rifles hand built by me, both caplocks and flintlocks, probably 3 or 4 pounds. Sometimes I'd fire maybe 15 or 20 shots of several charges, and without wiping between shots I have never experienced this "crud ring". I saw a guy shooting an inline with Pyrodex pellets at my bench this fall, and he got it after one (or a couple) of shots. He cleaned after every shot, and what a chore that was.

But I have got a lot of fouling at the top of the seated charge when I used heavy loads of Swiss 1 1/2F and 2F, like 120 grains in my .58 fullstock flintlock Hawken I built. So bad that I could barely seat a ball after two or three shots and had to clean after every shot.

 

[Rat Trapper]

The type of lube used may have a impact on the amount of crude left in the bore when using tiple seven. I have been using bore butter and do not have a crude ring problem. Those who shoot inlines often have the crude ring after one shot if they use standard primers. Sabots do not use any lube, and that is the reason I think using a lube will elimanate it. Some have posted here they have had problems with getting there rifles to fire with subs. I have not had hang fires or any other problems when using triple seven in any of my TC Hawken rifles. I do take the time to remove all the oil in the bore before loading.

 

[CharlesZ]

We gotta find you a new team :rotf: and you are on the wrong side of the battle line. man, you are confused :haha: :v
just kidding. GO Phillies
:v

You're right lonehunter, I am confused. Let's just say I tossed my Springfield for a Reb Enfield because it's a better rifle.
Game 6, tonight--Damn Yankees !!

 

[paulvallandigham]

I suggest you try running a greased cleaning patch down the barrel, BEFORE you put in the first powder charge, using a sub, and sabots. The Grease( I use Young Country Lube 101- a fore- runner of "Bore Butter" or "Wonderlube"--) will keep the plastic sabot from rubbing off plastic in the barrel, while providing lube to soften the residue and keep it from sticking to the walls of the bore.

I don't know that you can do much of anything with some of the subs to Prevent a crud ring from developing, but I believe this suggestion will make it easier to clean the crud OUT of the barrel.

 

[Herb]

I went out to shoot my .58 fullstock flint Hawken today at 100 and 200 yards, but discovered I did not have my adjustable powder measure. I did have two, one for 70 grains and the other for 80 grains. I used up my four pre-loaded tubes from my elk hunt, which had 140 grains of Moosic, PA Goex 2F. Then I shot a couple with April, 2009 bulk Goex 2F, which is slower. I used one of each measure, for 150 grains. My chronograph gave erroneous readings, don't know why, so I'll call Clovis at Oehler tomorrow to see what he says.

So then I loaded up a 70 grain measure of Pyrodex RS (only a couple of tablespoons left over from 1995), tapped it down about 1/8" and topped it off with Goex 2F and dumped it down the barrel. Added another measure of 70 grains of RS on top of that. Put a 7/8" wool over powder wad in, and then a .020 OxYoke patch lubed with Murphy Oil Soap and alcohol and a .570 roundball I cast. Primed with 4F black, and it went bang just like it should. Shot another the same, but with my chronograph not reading right, I quit on the RS. Next I did the same with Triple 7 2F, and two shots fired perfectly. Of interest is that I did not wipe after any shot, and that I could feel fouling with the Goex 2F loads, but no problem loading. The RS seemed to clean that out, and the next three shots, one with RS and two with Triple 7 2F, loaded very easy.