Pyrodex dilemma

[Little Wattsy]

Shooting again after a long layoff I'm just about finishing off my ffg and fffg powder. Sitting on the shelf are half canisters of 2f and 3f pyrodex. I only shoot percussion. Should I shoot off the pyrodex or get rid of it and order some more blackpowder?
Charles

So far I have shot Pyrodex RS exclusively..At $11.50 a can deliverd I find no reason to go else where...I have ZERO issues with it and the dead critters dont seem to mind. :wink:

 

[misher]

Don't let someone's comments run you off of the Forum. With the thousands of people here you will always come up contrary to someone. Remember we are here to learn and have fun,Let's not go beyond where we should. We are in a lifestyle that seems to be shrinking every year, let's not do it to ourselves.

 

[BrownBear]

... let's not do it to ourselves.

Amen. :bow:

 

[Herb]

Clovis did not know why my Oehler 35P gave those erroneous readings. He suggested shooting with different light. I did today, and that cured the problem after it developed again. I shot at a different angle to the sun, which was behind my bench. Went back to using up that old (1980 and 1995 blended) Pyrodex RS in my .58 flintlock. It is easy to get it to fire normally, but this stuff is hard on patches. I used 120 grains plus about 10 grains of Goex 2F booster and 3 grains of Goex 4F priming powder. Used a dry 7/8" wool (sweater) overpowder wad, then red 10 ounce canvas from Wal Mart. Makes finding the patches much easier! But I had to hammer the short starter (with a hammer!) to start the ball. Still blew the patch. Tried 3 of those, then to .022 yellow something or other from Wal Mart, same results. Then to .018 pillow ticking, which worked better. Had two hangfires at first, but cured that. Picked the vent, primed with a 3 grain valve (Goex 4F) and tipped some of that powder into the flash hole, and added 3 more grains to the pan. Worked perfectly. I learned this techinique working with black powder, so it is not unique to Pyrodex. Had to do that with Swiss 1 1/2 and 2 in this patent breech flint. Fired 8 shots, had 6 good patches, they averaged 1776 fps.

Next I went to Triple 7 2F and worked down to 90 grains (plus the 10 grain Goex 2F boost) to get 1810 fps velocity. Fired 14 shots, with no hangfires or flashes in the pan. Last three shots on my 100 yard target went into 1.1".

So, 22 shots of old Pyrodex RS and Triple 7 2F (from 2001, I think) fired normally with no flashes in the pan, after I cured the hangfire problem (which is a problem of the patent breech). It is easy to get this stuff to fire normally, but these heavy charges require a thick, tough patch (I don't know what that would be), and a good overpowder wad. I think split leather like I used before or a 1/8" cardboard wad might work well.

 

[ozark57]

Right, Hard opinions and differences are how we learn and get to the facts. Fact is, it is the only way I learn. I like it when someone proves me wrong, because it means the new information will propel me forward in this hobby. This is fun and I enjoy it greatly when I can apply what i've learned to my guns/shooting. BP shooting seems simple, but there is a lot (for me) to learn.

 

[paulvallandigham]

A 24 Gauge OS card should work as a FireWall in your rifle, when used as an OP wad. Or use a 62 cal.( 20 ga.){oversized on purpose} Felt, Pre-lubed wad as an OP wad.

I think your thick canvas would work, if lubed up with bore butter the day before, to allow the grease to thoroughly penetrate the fabric's weave. I have less success- or at least "inconsistent" success- if I lube such patches as part of my loading routine at the range, or in the field.

With heavy charges( 70 grains and more of FFFg BP, and any of the substitute powders, which burn at a higher temperature) of powder, burned patches are of serious and frequent concern. I am always surprised to meet shooters who don't search out their spent patches, and have no clue how to read them, or why they should do so.

Congratulations, Herb, on persevering, and finally getting the small groups your rifle, and you are capable of shooting. Now, If you can shoot those 3-shot, 1.1" groups on a regular basis, you are ready to go! :thumbsup: :hatsoff:

 

[CharlesZ]

I was shooting Pyrodex RS out of my .58 Missisippi Rifle.
One observation right off--this stuff is dirty!
Seems like there is a much larger quantity of unburned residue-soot like.
Now it could be due to it's age ( 20+ yrs), or maybe moisture got to it. Is it possible that the conical was not compressed tight enough down on the powder?
I started getting some groups after working up a load so as far as effectiveness it's right there.
I think I'll try a patched ball next time around.
Does Pyrodex burn as efficiently as BP?

 

[Herb]

I did not feel any fouling while using the Pyrodex RS or Triple 7 2F. There was fouling with the Goex 2F, but not enough that I had to clean between shots. The 22 shots I did the last day, there was no cleaning or wiping between shots, and no noticeable fouling. If you want a "crud ring" or really tough fouling, you can find it with heavy charges of Swiss powder. See my posts on page 3 of this forum, "Shooting Accessories", subject "Swiss Powder", date 9/30/09. I used Murphy Oil Soap and alcohol lube, about 1 to 2 parts.

Does Pyrodex burn as efficiently as black powder? I'm not sure how to define that, but I can give directly comparable velocities from several powders in my .58 fullstock flint Hawken. First, Pyrodex is "fluffier" than black powder. It is MEASURED the same as black powder, but that volume weighs less than black. If you tap a measure, it will settle a lot. Triple 7 does not tap down, it is denser. Here are loads and velocities with .570 roundballs in my flinter.

120 grains Pyrodex RS (plus 10 grains of Goex 2F booster) gave 1776 fps. 120 gr Goex 3F gave 1754. 130 gr Goex 3F gave 1780. 140 gr 1978 Goex 2F gave 1808 fps. 150 gr April 2009 Goex 2F gave 1808 fps also. 100 gr Swiss 3F gave 1818 fps. 120 gr Swiss 1 1/2 gave 1824 fps. 120 gr Swiss 2 gave 1843 fps. 90 gr of Triple 7 2F (plus 10 gr Goex 2F booster) gave 1812 fps.

These heavy charges were for my elk hunt. I use these replica powders only for testing, having about 50 pounds of black powder on hand. I test it to learn about it. There are people who want to use this stuff and maybe cannot get black powder, so I like to tell them how to make it work. I does work very well, too, even in a flintlock. Biggest problem for me with Pyrodex RS is blown patches. They probably wouldn't be a problem with moderate loads, say 70 to 90 grains. Triple 7 is easier to use, and it will really produce velocity. Higher velocity is very desireable for us westerners, to flatten the ball trajectory. We also accomplish this by having a higher impact at 100 yards- but that is another subject.

 

[Herb]

Just heard from my friend in Australia. Don't know if they have Pyrodex or Triple 7 there, but black powder is $80 US a pound now.