Pyrodex in flintlocks

[jhenry1728]

So, will Pyrodex work in a flintlock? Any difference between 3f and 2f? Any additional considerations?

 

[Zonie]

Very poorly.

As I shoot both real black powder and Pyrodex in my caplocks I have been known to accidentally pour some Pyrodex into my flintlocks.

The usual result is 3-4 flashes in the pan before my flintlocks finally fire and this is when I am priming with 4F black powder so there is a good healthy flash with each fall of the cock.

Hodgdon, the maker of Pyrodex very clearly say that if one is shooting it in a flintlock a pre-charge of 5 grains or so of real black powder must be poured down the barrel before adding the Pyrodex.

 

[F_Thomas]

I contacted the Pyrodex folks and they specifically stated that Pyrodex should not be used in a flintlock because it has a higher ignition temperature and is unreliable in a flintlock.

That was directly from them.

 

[CaptainKirk]

As the others said; not recommended.
Even if it does work, you will have delayed ignition, from what I've read. Never tried it, though.

 

[Congress Own Regiment]

Pyrodex and triple 7 do not light as well as real black powder. but can be used if a small charge of black is loaded first. But reduce your load by that amount of black you use as a starting charge.
It is likely if you find a place to get black powder you will skip the Pyrodex or triple 7 and just use the black powder. you can order it via mail but with shipping you might want to order as many cans as you can. to equal out the extra coast of shipping.

 

[BrownBear]

I live where black powder is virtually impossible to get, even to have it shipped in, while subs are on the store shelves. I managed to get in a good supply of black, but I also recognize that the day might come when I run out and can't replace it.

That's a long winded way of saying I decided to try it for myself, "just in case."

Ayup. No one was feeding me a bum line. Used straight, neither granulation of Pyrodex or Triple Seven was anywhere near reliable enough, even for plinking, much less target or hunting.

Next I tried black just in the pan, and had pretty much the same results that Zonie reports.

Finally I tried black in the pan, along with a small "starter charge" in the bore under the sub. That worked, but I won't do it unless I have to just because it's one more horn to carry and one more step to remember.

Here's something I learned that is kinda interesting, maybe due to our wet climate or the phase of the moon. Pan ignition with Goex 2f was as fast as 3f or 4f, but it was more reliable and "seemed" a little faster in igniting the main charge. No science in that, but it was hard to shake the impression.

The good news is that if you have to do it, something like 10 grains of powder between the pan and the bore translates into roughly 700 shots from a single can of real black powder. It certainly would spread scarce cans of black a lot further than using black throughout.

 

[mmahlock]

Have you tried these guys?
http://www.norwestcompany.com

 

[BrownBear]

Have you tried these guys?
http://www.norwestcompany.com

Yeah, I know them well. Good folks, but they don't ship. And as a matter of fact, can't legally ship to my location if they would even try. No real savings on powder ($23/lb) even before paying shipping and hazmat to me. They're not gouging anyone- they pay the same shipping the rest of us do up here.

 

[mmahlock]

From this I gather you are not in a "community on the highway system or the Marine Highway System".

 

[buzz]

I have some leftover from my caplock days and found it worked ok as your load but using real BP in the pan but once its gone i wont get anymore\

 

[mmahlock]

Pyrodex in flintlocks isn't really a solution because even TC (the builder of the flintlock Firestorm which is designed to use it) state in their user's manual that you have to use half a pan of 4f pushed through the touch hole followed by a second half a pan of 4f in order to fire it.

If you have to buy 4f to prime it what is the point of using pellets of Pyrodex rather than real black powder. You've already had to find a supplier of black powder.

 

[Greenmtnboy]

I live where black powder is virtually impossible to get, even to have it shipped in, while subs are on the store shelves. I managed to get in a good supply of black, but I also recognize that the day might come when I run out and can't replace it.

That's a long winded way of saying I decided to try it for myself, "just in case."

Ayup. No one was feeding me a bum line. Used straight, neither granulation of Pyrodex or Triple Seven was anywhere near reliable enough, even for plinking, much less target or hunting.

Next I tried black just in the pan, and had pretty much the same results that Zonie reports.

Finally I tried black in the pan, along with a small "starter charge" in the bore under the sub. That worked, but I won't do it unless I have to just because it's one more horn to carry and one more step to remember.

Here's something I learned that is kinda interesting, maybe due to our wet climate or the phase of the moon. Pan ignition with Goex 2f was as fast as 3f or 4f, but it was more reliable and "seemed" a little faster in igniting the main charge. No science in that, but it was hard to shake the impression.

The good news is that if you have to do it, something like 10 grains of powder between the pan and the bore translates into roughly 700 shots from a single can of real black powder. It certainly would spread scarce cans of black a lot further than using black throughout.

Brown Bear,
can't you have it shiped to AK from anyone of our BLK powder distributers, via UPS.
Or is your location there in AK a problem for shipping BLK powder.
:hmm:

 

[BrownBear]

Specific location is the problem. Just a whole lot of those up here. UPS is ground only, and that takes roads.

 

[Tom Compton]

a group recently bought a case and the $ including shipping and HazMat was 13.25/lb IIRC.

 

[BrownBear]

I'd be all over it at those prices, twice that in fact if it was just easy to get to. Folks up here are paying $23/lb all told to get it into places where it's legal.

 

[ebiggs1]

Pyrodex in flintlocks isn't really a solution because even TC (the builder of the flintlock Firestorm which is designed to use it) state in their user's manual that you have to use half a pan of 4f pushed through the touch hole followed by a second half a pan of 4f in order to fire it.

If you have to buy 4f to prime it what is the point of using pellets of Pyrodex rather than real black powder. You've already had to find a supplier of black powder.

That isn’t exactly how the Firestorm manual says it,

2. When pouring your priming powder, start by pouring the black powder (FFFFG granulation) into
the touchhole, then fill the pan approximately one-half full.
By giving the stock a few light “taps” with the heel of your hand, you help settle some of the priming
powder further into the ignition channel. This also helps to improve the reliability of ignition.

”¦but the point of the Firestorm isn’t to relieve a person from black powder; it is a response to some states having a flintlock only deer season. The gun is meant to appeal to folks that are used to using in-line muzzleloaders. If you use real black powder in one, they are very fast and shoot very well.

 

[flintlock10]

I have a Investarms flinter and can't shoot it as there isn't much black powder around here. I'd love to get some 4F and 2F, if I could find it
My percussion .50 is getting all the attention,... for now.

 

[mmahlock]

If you can drive down to the States you can purchase and take home 18# of Black Powder or so a friend that lives in Canada has told me. BTW he spends a lot time down here and has to educate a number of US and Canadian Border Patrol Officers about the gun and powder laws of both countries.

 

[BrownBear]

Yup. Let's see now. Five days of driving each way, that's ten days of fuel, motels and meals for 18#. Call it $2500 in freight without regard for lost wages. That works out to pert near $175 a can. We can do that, if I sell all my flintlocks to pay the bills. :rotf:

Seriously, been there done that on getting BP to my door. It took freight to the West Coast, a willing recipient, overland transport to a friend willing to hold it till I found a boat, then a willing boat. Actual freight wasn't bad, but by the time I bought dinner for all the friends who helped I was back up to around $23 a pound. Glad to do it and I have a dwindling case now. I've got a line on a potential alternative, but all costs considered, I figure I'll be paying around $23 a pound if it works out.

 

[Oldnamvet]

Wow. With all that hassle, I think I'd be shipping in sulfur and potassium nitrate and making my own powder "out back".