Pyrodex / Triple 7 Q's

[The Baron]

I am flying down to KS this year to hunt turkeys. I have read it can be a real problem trying to travel with BP firearms, due to BP residue coming up as an explosive is airport security swab samples. The last thing I want is to ruin my trip becasue of some complications at security.

So, I was planning to take my 870 for the trip. But, now that some warmer weather is here I am looking at my guns and thinking it would be a lot better to take one of my BP guns - I switched to muzzeloading for my turkeys a few years back, and now it just doesn't seem right to not use a muzzleloader for my first Rios. I'd love to use my flinter, but it is awfully long and I don't have a hard case to fly it in. I thought my T/C New Englander 12ga. might do the trick with a BP substitue.

I am looking for input as to what BP substitute product might be best for this gun and shot loads - I know nothing about Pyrodex, Triple 7, or any other BP sub. All I have ever shot is Goex BP so I'll take all the input you guys are willing to give.

Will a substitue ignite properly with a side-lock percussion gun? More importabtly, will a BP substitute come up as an explosive in airport swabs? If it might, then the whole experiment is a moot point as I don't want to risk a big hassle

 

[Rebel]

I used Pyrodex in the New Englander i used to have. I did on occasion have a slight hangfire with it, but it always went off. You might call and talk to airport security and tell them what you want to do and see if there is going to be a problem. You could always take the gun and then buy a lb of Pyrodex after you get there. It is easier to find locally than BP.

 

[RetiredMedic]

Your better off buying a can of Pyrodex when you get to your hunting location.

I've used 90 gr, 1 1/8 #6 shot..
It has never fail me..

 

[david50]

i use ff 777 in my CVA 12ga. sxs for turkey,1 1/4oz. of #5 shot with the same volume of powder.have never had a problem

 

[wolfram]

Pyrodex also has potassium nitrate, sulfur, and charcoal in addition to other stuff. So it may create concerns at the airport. What the other guys said is correct advice. I wouldn't bother with bringing my own powder. Pyrodex is extremely easy to find. Triple 7 in loose powder can be found if you shop around. There's no way that you won't be able to easily find a substitute if you want it. Given the choice, I would go with Pyrodex because of the cost. Pyrodex RS costs about $16 and some change while a pound of Triple 7 runs around $25 here in MS. Personally, I would save $10 and go with Pyrodex if I were only going to shoot a bit while hunting and were going to throw most of it out before I got on a plane.

 

[Zonie]

If you decide to buy the powder when you get there (which is an excellent suggestion), you might also want to leave your caps at home and buy them there too.
The caps might show up as "explosives" which could cause the same problem that black powder would cause.

If you buy your caps there ask the salesperson if they have the #11 CCI Magnum caps. They work much better with the synthetic powders.
Speaking of powders, before you buy a synthetic, why not ask if the gunstore carrys real black powder? You may be extra lucky and find one of the few that do.

zonie

 

[paulvallandigham]

Good ADvice, Zonie: For hunters who will be using a guide service, or outfitter, ask to see if they have powder and caps available, and if not, arrange to semd them a pound or five and caps, all in one order to save on the hazmat fees. That way the guide will have your black powder waiting for you on arrival, and also the caps you need. The extras he will gladly pay you for so he can keep them for other customers. YOu may have to find a way ot clean out your powder horn of all dust and debris to pass the sniffer testers at the airport, but that seems to be a minor problem if you can use what you are used to having when you go hunting up North. The Powder distributors will know how and if they can send caps and powder to Alaska and Canada, etc.

 

[spottedpony]

I looked into this last year, thinking of an out of state bp hunting trip, Checking a bp firearm was no problem as long as all airline regs were met but when i checked with the airlines for they're guidelines what i was told was, absolutely no black powder (or substitutes) because its all flammible solids, AND percussion caps were an absolute no no as they are considered class B explosive. after the definate no's on loose powder and caps, i didnt even approach the possibility of residue being an explosives scan problem.
The last time i flew, i even got hassled over an empty round of rifle brass i had on my key ring as a fob. no primer, no slug etc, and a hole drilled through the side of the brass for the key ring to go through.
Best bet, call the airlines and ask about any concerns you may have.

 

[Many Klatch]

I went on a Pheasant hunt in Colorado last year and took my Browning A5 modern (well reasonably) suppository shotgun on the plane. I checked the regs pretty close and found that you have to have a case that can be locked to check a gun onto a plane. I found that different airports handle guns differently. The most complete was at Denver. There I watched as they looked at the gun, swabbed it, and xrayed it then they had me lock up the gun case. They want to see key locks, not combination locks on gun cases. I don't think you will have any problem getting through the inspection. Just make sure that your powder horn is absolutely empty. Arrive about 1-1/2 hours early so that there will be plenty of time to futz with the airline and the security people.

I haven't tried going the airline route with my muzzleoaders. If I do, I will have to build a locking hard case for it.

Many Klatch

 

[ss1]

" arrange to semd them a pound or five and caps, all in one order to save on the hazmat fees." ARE you SURE that you can ship powder and caps in one order and have just one hazmat fee?? I don't THINK that you can do this!! Best check this out.

 

[Slamfire]

While I'd agree with buyin' powder and caps at your destination, I'd advise tryin' it out at home first, you might get very different performance as opposed to your normal Goex. :winking:

 

[Jac Spring]

Since you can check ahead of time, why not just locate a retailer between the apo and your hunting destination that carries goex? Stop by and pick up your powder and caps - no worries!

I think you may be making this harder than it needs to be.

Did you say Kansas? If your flying into KC, there's a Cabelas - I would still call ahead and make sure they have what you want in-stock - and I would also ask them to hold your order for you at the back gun area - that way you know for sure that it'll be there and you can just go in and pick it up - saving time.

Good hunting!

 

[armymedic.2]

because bp guns can be shipped to your home, is it legal to ship the gun to your destination? i have read that many people will ship their bows to the destination prior just to make sure that it is there and not delayed as has happened to me with a shotgun on a turkey hunt. ended up borrowing one for the first day, but it was not fun. shipping it a couple of weeks prior to a frein or the outfittter is a great solution as long as it is legal. you get to put it in a box and pad the heck out of it.

 

[PaulN/KS]

Cabela's in KCK usually has Goex.It is an "ask for" item at the counter where the muzzleloader stuff is.The Pyrodex and 777 are on the shelves.Not sure about caps as we buy them at our club.Good luck on your hunt.Where are you going to hunt out here in the "Free State"...?

 

[Rat Trapper]

This my recomendations: (1) have the people you plan to hunt with pick up a can of what ever powder you wish to use. (2) have same person pick up caps. (3) if you plan to use Tripple Seven you should not have any problems. I recommend the hot shot nipple and CCI #11 mag caps.
If you change powders from what you currently are using, make sure you try some of it prior to departing on your hunt. There are some people on this site who really hate it if anyone says anything good about the black powder subs, however these subs do in fact work well!!

 

[sidelock]

BULL

 

[Old Charlie]

I have found Tripple Seven to work well in my cap lock guns. It however is useless in my flinters. It also costs a lot more than real powder. I have a little left but will buy no more. Goex works great in all my guns and is cheaper.
Old Charlie

 

[paulvallandigham]

Rattrapper: Any criticism on this board about Triple 7 vs. BP is based on the cost, and performance. Yes, some people have had some success using 777 in their guns with certain lots of powder. Others report much worse results. And, because of the chemical composition of 777, we find that you have to use it up fairly soon, because as soon as its expose to moisture, it begins to degrade. Chronographs don't lie. Manufacturers used to be able to get away with selling inferior products just using the usual hype to sell it. For gun owners, the appearance of low cost Chronographs has allowed us all to check new products and cut through the sales pitch baloney.

Please, use 777 if it works for you. But, don't criticize the comments on this forum from others who have spent considerable time and money finding out that the lot of 777 they have doesn't have much of a shelf life, and is not as accurate a powder to use as Black Powder. I personally think the arrogance of the company telling people you can use their powder in flintlocks, when it has such a higher flashpoint than BP does tells you a lot about the company officials integrity. Character still matters, and in this sport, it matters a lot. Some folks may look on us as simple folk, targets to be conned, but most of us are just old fashioned enough to believe that our word is our bond, that we should do what we say we will do, and that we never lie to someone because its just plain wrong.

This might be something to remember for those manufacturers who come out with some new, inproved, mousetrap or whatever. YOU can fool some of the people some of the time, but not all the people all the time.

As to pyrodex, the company has improved that product over the years. However, the pellets are way too expensive, and shooters who buy them to find a " quick way " to load their guns, don't do the target work needed to zero a load, and do more wounding and missing than hitting in the field. The sales hype for the pellets is magnified by the nonsense sales clerks are heard telling customers. And, yes, I do think the manufacturer is reasponsible for the lies told by these clerks. They know who the big discount store hire for clerks in the gun departments, how little they know about anything, and how they have a vested interested in making a sale to gain a small commission to add to that miserable pay check.