Pyrodex

[roundball]

You can just mail order it...both Graf & Sons and Powder,Inc have 5 can minimums instead of a whole case

 

[cayugad]

If Pyrodex is all you can get without spending a fortune, or driving for hours, then shoot the pyrodex. I always felt the main point is to make smoke and have fun. Then down the road if you happen to run across some Black Powder then get a can or two...

Have fun out there. That's the main thing. Even Pyrodex makes a nice cloud of smoke... :thumbsup:

 

[musketman]

You can just mail order it...both Graf & Sons and Powder,Inc have 5 can minimums instead of a whole case

That's my point, I (myself) can't afford to buy 5 cans at a shot without the kids going hungry, family comes first, shooting is down on my priority list...

I can swing two cans at once, and that's about it at this present time in my life...

I'm sure there are others out there in this boat as well...

 

[roundball]

I understand...wasn't implying cost was no object, only ensuring he knew there were BP purchase alternatives to buying a whole case...I didn't know that when I began and have seen where others have not known it either...was only trying to help

 

[musketman]

You did help, I think in my personal scenario, I'll go in with someone buying in bulk and then take my couple of cans, that way it doesn't break my "budget"...

I often wondered if the decline of black powder availability is an antigun form of gun control in the guise of anti-terrorism...

 

[Maynerd62411]

I would have to drive about 55 miles to get BP.Neither of the 2 gun shops in my area sell real BP. Pyrodex and Triple 7 are both available. Wal-Mart carries both,Pyrodex and Triple 7, seasonally. Pyrodex shoots well, but it smells like real rotton eggs. Triple 7 doesn't have that smell , plus it takes less powder,but it costs a few bucks more per pound. Yes, Triple 7 is cleaner and easier to clean. I still clean my guns the same way, so , that doesn't really matter, much. It's a matter of habit, I guess. :m2c:

 

[Herb]

bdarin- you've got some good discussion here. You asked about Triple 7. I have some experience with it. To see some reports, go the the SEARCH forum. Leave the thing set at "All Forums". For Keyword, type in "Triple 7". Choose the top switch under that (I don't know what the default, bottom one, does). For Username, type "Herb". For Date Range, change 1 week to "1 Year". Hit "submit". This will show you my posts on Triple 7, go the the earliest one first. I build rifles for other people, some live in big cities and can't easily get black powder, or maybe want to use Pyrodex. So I test with it. I like Pyrodex RS (see my post under Photo forum, "Rifle with a Cross"). Have had mixed results with Pyrodex P, some very good, some puzzling poor. You done right by asking your questions.

 

[Charles/NM]

Muzzle loading is only one of my many shooting fun areas of interest. If it's going to take ordering online to get powder I'll confine my rifle to the closet and shoot my other guns that are not a pain in the ass to get ammo for: 22lr, 357 mag rifles and pistols, airguns, etc.
I started out in the 1970's shooting BP and using Crisco for lube. That got to got to where it simply wasn't fun to shoot anymore so I put the muzzle loader away for 10+ years. I drug it outand started having fun shooting it again when I was introduced to Pyrodex. I like to be able to shoot all day without having severe barrel crudding problems. Cleanup at the end of the day is exactly the same with either powder, so that's not an issue with me. Being able to shoot and have fun is! To each his own.

 

Having to drive 35 miles for powder is considerable in some areas and to some mind sets. Living in South-Western Ontario until I was 21yrs. old, made me thing that even 40 miles was a looooog trip, let alone driving to Toronto ar Windsor, 110 miles in either direction. That's just the way I was raised & the general mindset back there in a population-rich area. Without major divided highways going north and south, it took a long time to get anywhere, with small towns every 3 miles, all having reduced speed limits, you were always accellerating then then braking for the next town. Traveling 35 miles in that area takes a LOT more time & fuel than the mere 30 min.per direction and about 1 1/2 gallons of fuel a mere $4.09 per gallon for 87 octain regular.($0.85.9 per liter) :results:
; The point is, 35 miles really isn't far, but it still takes time and adds to the cost of the powder, no matter what you drive. Looking ahead, and making that trip once or twice per year for a supply that makes the trip worthwhile, reduces the price as well as the number of times it has to be made. Combining orders with other guys in the same area also helps a great deal.
: This coming September, I will be making the Hefley Creek Rendezvous near Kamlops B.C. It is a week-long shoot/get-to-gether, where an attending indivdual from Alberta will have lots of BP for sale, at a mere $16.00 per pound. That's about 12.20 US per pound. Pretty good, considering I just paid between $20.99 to 32.99 to the last 11 pounds I was able to find. I only have to drive 250 miles to get it - drop in the hat at those prices & I get to camp for a week with like-minded friends.

 

[AdirondakDD]

I use BP in my flintlocks, Pyrodex in my inlines, 777 in my revolvers, mostly for economic reasons. Why waste good BP on a revolver. Between my reloading and muzzle loading I curently have 11 pounds of powder. I have no problem getting any powder in Schenectady New York. The cost is starting to go above the $20 pound average. When I was shooting skeet I would but HI Score 700 by the 14# keg.I am not a BP Shooter I am a muzzle loader shooter. My milsurps made in England, Switzerland, Russia, Turkey(you get the idea) are really PC. :m2c:

 

[Stumpkiller]

The unavailability is an excuse - to a point. Knock wood, I've never been shut out on BP in 25 years of shooting. Have never burnt a grain of Pyrodex or any other BP substitute. Now, it's become a quest. I've rationed FFg with sweat on my brow at times, but have found what I needed. I had to cross state lines at times. My local clothing-stores-formerly-known-as-sporting-goods-stores have forsaken me, so I stopped giving them any business. I most recently used[url] Powderinc.com[/url] to get 10# assorted, and in the future will again be buying in quantities large enough to diffuse the hazardous fee. It's a lot better of an investment than my stocks have done in the last four years.

I do feel sorry for our Canadian and European members. They have a much better excuse than the rest of us. As long as it is at all possible I'll continue to use BP exclusively. If we didn't each have unique quirks the world would be a boring place.

As JFK said: "We shoot blackpowder in flintlocks not because it is easy, but because it is difficult."

The easy path leads to the Dark Side; in-lines and black sabots, optical sights and synthetic stocks. Shudder, shudder.

 

Weeeeell, don't forget to use saliva ONLY, for the patched ball. What about the patch? Leather? 1840 woven "fabric"?,

You can get Whale-Oil from Japan. May be bear-fat and mutton-tallow fit the desire to be "original". Just make it sure, you don't get the stuff "synthetically" made.

Clean the gun with pond water, adding 2 cloves of grounded garlic.

Cast your bullets only on camp-fires, ignited with steel and flint, don't change your clothes more often than a year, walk, or ride your mule to the shooting range.

What I mean is: why are some people so decisive what kind of powder you have to use?

Remember, the whole thing is to have FUN, not to follow rligiously some "purists" that despise anything out of their "right way to do it".

HAVE FUN :master: :relax:

 

[Stumpkiller]

You're close. I clean my guns with water drawn from a well (electrically, but it's a well on my property), cast my own balls, use only "natural" ingredients in my homemade lube (and I have used mutton tallow - see "Lube Wars #1 in "Shooting Accessories"). And I walk to my shooting range. :haha:

If we don't fight to keep blackpowder we probably won't have it available. It's become a nuisance for dealers to stock, and if no one complains they won't bother. Nothing else works in flintlocks. Locally, #11 primers have become a "seasonal" item. Remember what happened to the locals when they said "ah, it's just a few white men, no harm, we'll just move West a bit."

Do you have an address for that whale oil? Bigi sushi, chop chop. :: I don't think it can be imported, but it might be worth a try.

 

[tg]

"What I mean is: why are some people so decisive what kind of powder you have to use?" I don't think anyone tried to tell anyone else what to use I just expressed my opinions about phony powder and my thoughts on why many do use it. Saliva is good but not the only 18th century lube, and all the other "gotta do this to be PC" stuff is a typical exagerated scenario which is commonly put forth to justify the modern stuff and try and diminish the PC aspect, sounds good on the surface but does not stand up to close scrutiny.

 

[JeffS]

I use real 2f black for .45lc, 12g-shells, cap&ball pistols, my .54 muzzleloader, and my 12g muzzleloader. Unless... I dont have time to run to the one store in 50 miles that sells the stuff. Then I drive less than 2 miles, and park easily at Walmart or Sportsmans Warehouse, and get Pyrodex RS. At 2:00am if the mood strikes me. (24hr Wal Mart)

I love and recommend the real thing, but reality steps in and forces some of us to use a sub, or nothing. Some people even prefer a sub. ::

bdarin, shoot what you can, shoot what you like, and have fun. Dont let anyone tell you not to.

Yeah yeah... Im thinking about ordering a bunch. Not everyone can though... Shoot, and let shoot.

Jeff

 

Black Powder is already classed as an Explosive. That's why a lot of gun stores don't carry it.
For a Dealer to sell Black Powder, he must have a Federal license for explosives.

Zonie,

You might want to reread the BATFE regulations on Blackpowder. BP used for "sporting purposes" such as ours, do not require a dealer to acquire a license to sell black powder. IMO, that is a common misconception of the recent BATFE changes dealing with storing and shipping explosives.

There are many dealers here in Western PA who sell BP. They are NOT required to have this "explosives" license, becasue it is for sporting purposes.

 

Chicken soup:
Fraid not. You do to need a license to store black powder for sale AND you must store it according to the rules.
Explosive safe, permits from local fire departments and many other regulations depending upon where you are located.
In Austintown Ohio, the city counsil passed an ordinance BANNING the sale of gun powder, PERIOD. Ain't a gun store in Austintown now. NONE save Wally World, and they ONLY can sell fake stuff.
Many places ban having explosives at all.
I don't advertise to anyone that knows my real name and address that I keep black powder on the premisis.
Touchy situation.
Even Gander Mountain stores will NOT handle Black, only T-7 and the like. They can't. Fire regulations won't permit it in most areas.
Every gun store in my area quit selling black because of strict NEW Federal regulations.
You absolutely DO need a license to sell it.
Further more YOU CAN NOT sell it. You don't have a license to sell explosives. If you buy a case, you CAN NOT sell half of it to a buddy legally.
I buy a case at a time.
Most people can't do that. I live in the country with no neighbors, shoot in my back yard, not everyone can or wants to.
There will come a day when we will not be allowed to own black powder. Soon if Kerry gets elected.

 

I cannot speak of local regulations relating to BP sales and storage.

The NFPA and UBC cover the requirements for commercial BP storage, including cabinets, etc.

I am only referring to a previous poster's comment about requirements for Federal Explosives licenses (or permits). Rather than post the entire section of the US Code, I have posted summary statement from the NMLRA webpage
(http://www.nmlra.org/explosives_act.htm) on this issue:

begin quote:

The portion of the U.S. Code that deals with explosives is contained in Title 18, Chapter 40. The Safe Explosive Act amended that chapter of the Code. The part of Title 18 that has permitted the sale of up to 50 pounds of commercially manufactured black powder without a permit is contained in Section 845, paragraph (a) (5). This paragraph of the law states that requirements of Chapter 40, "shall not apply to: (5) commercially manufactured black powder in quantities not to exceed fifty pounds, percussion caps, safety and pyrotechnic fuses, quills, quick and slow matches, and friction primers, intended to be used solely for sporting, recreational, or cultural purposes in antique firearms as defined in section 921 (a) (16) of title 18 of the United States Code, or in antique devices as exempted from the term

 

[Zonie]

Perhaps I was misinformed (by a gunshop) concerning the need for a Federal License when dealing with Black Powder however that is neither here nor there.

Many gunstores, for whatever reason do not choose to carry Black Powder. That is a fact and it is their right if they so choose.

For many of those shooters who wish to use their muzzleloaders they must either buy one of the new BP substitutes, or order Black Powder in quanity and pay the substantial additional Haz Mat fees which are charged by the commercial carriers.

This Post started with the question, is Pyrodex OK to use. The bottom line to that question is Yes.

 

[graybeard]

A friend who owns a gunshop tells me his insurance goes sky-high if he tells them he's handling black powder.