Quality Baker Rifle Replica?

[Ryan21]

Greetings from Canada, I am new to the firearm scene in general but I have been in the historic Sword and Swordsmanship world for about a decade and I am interested in obtaining a quality Baker Rifle replica that has proper rifling, I've noticed some of the kentucky and baker rifle replica's come in smoothbore, I guess for collectors who want to save cost? But I am wanting to get my hands on a quality rifled replica that I can target shoot with.

I have been looking at this website http://militaryheritage.com/baker.htm

and I have no idea what kind of things to look for. Please feel free to dump any and all advice and information as I'm quite new to firearms in general.

Thanks, Ryan

 

[LRB]

For quality, the only choice I know of is "The Rifle Shoppe". I don't recall if they do any actual building. You might have to buy all the parts and find a builder to assemble it, but the site you posted is not very good quality, and not really true to an original Baker in details.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Welcome. What do you consider "proper" rifling?

Currently there are commercially made barrels for the Baker Rifle which are 1:66 twist rate, but none other than a custom barrel come in the 1:120 twist rate as specified by Captain Barber in The Duke of Cumberland's Corps of Sharp-Shooters ; Instructions for the Formation and Exercise of Volunteer Sharp-Shooters c. 1804.

Some Baker rifles are sold smooth bore for lower costs, and some are sold that way as the major market is in Europe for those rifles, and many of those countries will not allow the importation of a rifled piece without a lot of paperwork.


The site that you referenced provides "copies" of Baker rifles fashioned in India, and while they would be good for historic reenactment they would not be called "quality copies".

You are probably looking at having something made from Rifle Shoppe parts.

LD

 

[Many Klatch]

There are a lot of reasonably priced, quality, rifled, muzzle loading, military reproductions that you can target shoot but as of right now the Baker Rifle isn't one of them. A lot of the acceptable reproduction rifles are from the American Civil War period. If you can live with that then you are good. If you really want a Baker because of the 1812 time period then you need to find someone custom making them.

IMHO - The Military Heritage site sells reproductions that look authentic from about 20 feet away and are smoothbored. These guns are for reenactors that just want to shoot blanks.

Many Klatch

 

[galamb]

Greetings fellow Canuck.

Depending on how and where you use the rifle there many not be anyone nearby that could tell the difference anyhow (if black powder shooters are as scarce as they are in my piece of the country).

Having said that only you can decide if the replica you note is "close enough" for YOU.

If you wanted the rifled barrel (don't know for sure but suspect they are sourcing from Colerain based on the $195 quote for the barrel) you could add $250-$300 to the stated cost of the rifle once you buy the barrel, have it shipped up here (about 45 bucks) and pay the HST/GST (another 40-45 bucks if Canada Post decides to collect it - they don't always.

Here's a comparison.

 

[Alden]

There is NO quality at Military Heritage/Discriminating General. I firmly believe they sell India-made factory "seconds." Now think about that...

Yes, they offer connecting buyers to someone here to barrel them. I even talked to them once about a group purchase but quickly gave up on them.

Here's my .69 Rifle Shoppe gun for another comparison -- took its buyer twelve (12) years to get it from them and then he sold it, unfired, indirectly to me. Poor bugger. But it is real quality as assembled...

 

[pargent]

Shootable originals are available in the UK for sale . :thumbsup:

 

[Ryan21]

Thanks for the info! I am very particular to flint locks as opposed to cap locks, It's more the late 1700's era early 1800's that is most intriguing to me. Could you suggest a different rifle of that era that I can aquire assembled that would make a decent target rifle? Im not really looking to build one. I might even be convinced to go to a smooth bore brown bess or similar if there are good sturdy models that work well with live ammunition. I was hoping to go for an early rifle to retain a little more accuracy whilst still having the flintlock basically, but I'm open to other stuff too.

Thanks

 

[Wes/Tex]

Would also recommend keeping a eye on TOTW's site. They have sold a few Baker Rifles over the last few years. Some are quite good and have been made by talented builders and a couple are the Indian made versions referred to above. The hand made guns are a bit pricey but it's about the only ways to get a true working copy of the Baker.

 

[Dphar]

During the American Revolution the British imported English made "Kentucky" rifles into Canada for trade to the natives.
I suggest you obtain a copy of "British Military Flintlock Rifles 1740-1840" by De Witt Bailey.
It will give you more ideas and information. Basically any "Kentucky" or German Jaeger will work for what you want and the caliber need not be 62. I would recommend 50 or maybe 45. Its much cheaper to shoot than a 62 like the Baker.

Dan

 

[galamb]

Ryan,

being in Canada (like me) you might find it difficult to get a completed rifle from abroad and there is very limited sources in Canada.

It's not that it's difficult to import a flintlock but many of the (major/big box/chain) US sellers don't want to be bothered with the customs regulations (Dixie/Cabela's and Bass Pro won't ship a flintlock period, as an example).

Most of the custom builders and a few of the suppliers of building supplies WILL ship, but in that market you are looking a significantly higher prices than what you see in the Cabela's catalog.

What you can get up here domestically is any of the Lyman or Pedersoli offerings - the latter should have something that you would be interested in.

I would suggest you check out the offerings on the Pedersoli website (link is here) and if there is something that tweaks your interest you can check the price (in Canadian bucks) at Shooters Choice (Waterloo, Ontario), here is the link to their Pedersoli pages (Gun Room)

The Pedersoli's are not "cheap" compared to other "off the shelf" offerings, but the quality is very good and may be the only models available to you without a significant hassle in trying to obtain one.

 

[Ryan21]

Hey thanks for the help! I'm in Victoria BC, not sure if we have that store here but I've never heard of it. Will that company ship to me directly?

 

[galamb]

Yes, they will drop a package on Purolator - no problem, no hassle, you would have it in 5 days or less.

They are good to deal with - my source for real black powder.

 

[Ryan21]

So these Pedersoli's are a decent approximation of the accuracy and operation of the originals?

 

[Ryan21]

Is it legal to ship black powder that way into Canada? I have no clue about this stuff, been a sword guy for years and I've never dealt with firearms. I've shot a rimfire .22 haha.

 

[Ryan21]

I really like the looks of the Pennsylvania Flintlock Rifle, looks like some pretty quality stuff.

 

[galamb]

Shooters Choice and Cabela's (Canada) will ship black powder but with hazmat charges (expensive).

You might be able to source some a little more local. I know a couple of builders out in BC so I can ask where they get it from.

Because of some of the difficulties getting blackpowder stuff up here you may want to consider a couple of things.

You absolutely can get Pyrodex (black powder substitute) and 50 cal round balls from Canadian Tire. Even if your local store doesn't regularly carry them, they can get it in (no extra shipping etc - I am an inventory manager at crappy tire, so know that for a fact). Those would be the heavy/hazmat components that would cost the most to ship if you had to source them from elsewhere.

Everything else you would/might need/want can be bought from numerous sources in both Canada and the US and be delivered by mail reasonably.

And yes, as many on this site can attest - Pedersoli makes a quality product and the fit and finish is excellent.

 

[Wes/Tex]

You might want to contact Loyalist Arms in Harrietsfield, Nova Scotia. They will probably be aboe to answer any questions about getting guns to Canada, finding powder, etc. Their number is 902-479-0967. Good luck with your search.

 

[galamb]

Powder can be found, it's the 30 bucks a pound and 35 bucks in hazmat shipping fees (from our few sources) that make it un-economical.

Then, we are only allowed to import 17 lbs (must be in 1 lbs containers) and most of the US places that will export will only do so in 25 pound lots.

Likewise, round balls can be found in all calibers, but the post office and couriers up here charge more to ship the "heavy" package than the cost of the balls (got a quote of 25 dollars to ship 200 round balls).

This is why I make a 4 hour drive twice a year to "stock up"...

It isn't easy being a muzzle loader in the Great White North.

 

[Ryan21]

Can Crappy tire get in the smaller caliber kentucky and PA rifle balls .32?