Question about a Custom Trade Gun

[DavidB1757]

I shot my new custom trade gun for the first time yesterday. This is the first custom gun I have ever owned, my other muzzleloader are Pedersoli and Traditions. When I got home I started to clean it. I always take the lock out and clean that first then start on the barrel. When I took the 3 side plate screws out, the 2 on the ends of the plate are simple wood screws about an inch long. The one machine screw in the center runs through to the lock underneath the cock.
Is this normal? My other muzzleloaders have 2 screws that run into the lock. At the front end of the lock there is what looks like a screw but it is either supposed to “look” like it has a screw, or it has been broken and a wood screw put in its place. What initially gave me the concern was that the serpent side plate is broken but you cannot tell until you take the screws out. Part of it is held on with a small brass nail. I don’t know why it is this way. Why not just replace the serpent it can’t cost more than 20-30$ ? Maybe I’m being too picky which is why I won’t name the builder.
Thanks

 

[Grenadier1758]

The use of the wood screw for the front lock bolt is common in the newly made guns. The one bolt in the middle is generally sufficient to hold the lock in the stock. The wood screw at the front and in the back of a "three bolt" is not unheard of. By using the wood screw in the front of the lock, the ramrod and lock bolt interference can be eliminated for a trim fore end. My TVM has a wood screw for the forward lock bolt.

I too would have thought that the side plate should be one piece. This is something that you can ask the maker.

 

[DavidB1757]

Thank you that makes me feel much better. I’m not too worried about the side plate because I can replace that easily myself. There is also no gap between the lock and barrel and it seems pretty solid. Thanks again

 

[rich pierce]

Trade guns varied widely buy I’ve not seen any 18th century examples that did not have 2 lock bolts. It seems that locks in the 18th century came drilled and tapped for lock bolts and came with the lock bolts. One reason for this is that lock plates were case hardened and it would be difficult for the gunstocker to drill them for lock bolts.

 

[Notchy Bob]

Trade guns varied widely buy I’ve not seen any 18th century examples that did not have 2 lock bolts. It seems that locks in the 18th century came drilled and tapped for lock bolts and came with the lock bolts. One reason for this is that lock plates were case hardened and it would be difficult for the gunstocker to drill them for lock bolts.

Interesting! I didn't know that!

I do know that flintlocks customarily had two lock bolts, although I have a Jackie Brown fowling piece with an L&R Queen Anne lock that manages just fine with only one. I believe many old trade guns had a third screw in the tail of the sideplate which was generally just a wood screw. I understand that on some very old dog locks, this third screw really was a lock bolt.

I can't remember where it was at the moment, but I recently saw photos of an old long arm online that had only one actual lock bolt. It also had a two-piece sideplate, but the forward part was merely decorative.

I would be interested in seeing photos of the custom trade gun described in the original post, with some detail shots of the sideplate and screws. The sideplate could possibly be soldered back together if it is broken. Might be an alternative to replacing it.

Notchy Bob

 

[Grenadier1758]

I was looking through "For Trade and Treaty" last night. found several examples of Trade Guns with three bolts showing. While there were many with three lock bolts, the view of the lock plat did not have a threaded hole for the rear lock bolt. Then I came across a picture of a lock plate, side plate and the bolts were two threaded bolts and the rear was a wood screw.

 

[plmeek]

From Gooding's Trade Guns of the Hudson's Bay Company, pg 60,

By 1680, many gun locks in England were being fastened to the stock with three screws [lock bolts]. This was what Oakes suggested and the Committee accepted because it was the style at the time. By 1690, about half to the London gunmakers had adopted a two screw attachment but Company guns continued to be made with 3-screw locks for at least another century.

For the HBC (and the other fur companies would have likely followed their lead), the switch from three lock bolts to two lock bolts and a wood screw on NW trade guns was made in the last decade of the 18th century.