Question about "in the white"

[bbassi]

I'm considering buying a Early Virginia from TVM in the white. My reason for this is mainly because I want to add some of my own special touches, but I simply don't have the time to build one from a kit at this time. not to mention my own doubt in my skills.

Anyway, I have 2 questions:

1. can anyone who has ordered a gun in the white from TVM tell me what I would be in for? Specifically, I would like to possibly do some raised carving around the lock, wrist and butt. Is there usually enough extra wood to allow for that or not?
2. I love wire inlay, especially silver. How PC would some simple silver wire inlays be on an early Virginian rifle?

 

[CrackStock]

You should have ample material for your carving on a regular in the white rifle. Call Matt Avance and tell him what you want and he will get it to you.

I am not sure when wire inlay was used, but I think that it would look great on that type of rifle.

CS

 

[LRB]

The only place you might want extra wood is behind the cheek piece and many builders don't even leave it there. I do, but remember rifle carving is not very high relief.

 

[TANSTAAFL]

Stock is shaped, sanded or scraped before carving is done.

 

[Zonie]

bbassi: If you use "incised carving", you don't need to have any extra material on the stock.
(Forgive me if you all ready know this, but incised carving is the type where the shape is carved directly into the finish sanded wood leaving grooves. This type of carving was quite common on old guns from all periods.)
The main disadvantage of using incised carving is if you mess it up, it is very hard to hide without sanding the surface down to the point of looking like a valley.

The "relief carving" which stands above the surrounding surface is not really high. It is often only 1/64 to 1/16 of an inch high.
I think the reason the carving looks like it is high is the mind expects large surfaces to be relatively flat, and when it sees the carving, it unconsciously gives greater depth and height to what it sees.
Most of the best relief carving IMO is the 1/32 high stuff which may get up to 1/16 high where it climbs over another "C" or "S" branch. It then goes back down to the 1/32 level.

Perhaps some will disagree with me, but IMO some of the worst looking carving that I've seen is between 1/16 and 1/8 of an inch high.
I feel carving that high above the stock surface detracts from the looks of the gun because it draws the eye to it, to the exclusion of the rest of the gun. In other words, it's like putting a fluorescent pink frame on a nice painting.

It also doesn't blend and "fair" with the adjacent wood so it (to me) looks rather like a sore thumb sticking out.

 

[bbassi]

Thanks all for the advice. It helped. And I agree that carving should be minimal in heigth or depth, I just wasn't sure if "in the white" meant it was finish sanded and ready to stain, at least from that particular maker. of course if I used my head I would have know that all I needed to do was ask when I ordered it. I mean heck, it is a (semi) custom gun!
Zonie, you seem to know quite a bit about PC. Do you think some simple wire inlay would be non-PC for an early Virginian rifle?

 

[Zonie]

Wire inlay was common on the guns made in Europe. It dates back at least to the 1600's and probably earlier.
Of course, the guns made there were for the Nobility.

Refering to Long Rifles of Virginia James Whisker PHD & James Butler Jr.,
on page 70 is a flintlock rifle attributed to John or Henry Sheetz which has extensive wire inlay.
Page 83 shows the butt of a rifle by G.W.Sites with a very small amount of wire inlay.
Page 88 shows a Flintlock attributed to Henry Spitzer with a little wire inlay on and behind the cheekpiece.

There were two Henry Sheetz's ranging from the Revolution into the early 1800's. In the 1850's another Henry Sheetz was born in Virginia and moved to Missouri.
The style of the gun shown would IMO have been from the late years of Flintlocks 1800-1830?

G.W.Sites and Henry Spitzer were also making guns in this time frame.

My only real advice if you want wire inlay would be that Brass and Sterling Silver would have been used.
German Silver was not invented until later.


If your really "into" Virginia rifles, I suggest you get the book I mentioned. Unlike many of Whiskers books which deal more with the people than the guns, this book as LOTS of pictures. Not only longrifles, but a few pistols and Military arms as well.