Question about Trip7 or Pryodex

[WALKERs210]

The last flintlock rifle I fired was somewhere around 1973, and we shot black powder then. After several rounds we had to wipe down the frizzen, and the flint to clean oil residue in order to reduce flash in the pan. I have been contemplating the purchase of a beautiful CVA Flintlock but now use either Triple 7 or APP powder to shoot with. Will these powders leave the oily residue like the black powder did?

 

[BrownBear]

Worse than that, a flintlock won't ignite them reliably. Haven't tried it myself with or without, but even Hodgdon's own references recommend a small charge (10 grains?) of real black go down the bore before either Pyro or 777, as well as real black in the pan.

I get around the "greasy kid stuff" in the pan by simply wiping it with my thumb (while avoiding the flint- blood fouled the pan worse than anything!) in dry weather or a dry rag in wet weather.

 

[MikeChapin]

The ignition temperature on the substitutes is considerably higher than black powder. Getting them to ignite in a flinter can be very frustrating unless you use the duplex load BrownBear mentioned. Also you still have to use 3F or 4F BP in the pan. I don't know of any substitute that will ignite from the spark off the frizzen.

The "flash in the pan" problem you experienced in the past would have probably been better addressed with the use of a vent pick rather than wiping down the lock after every shot. A flash with the gun not going off means the lock is working fine but the flash is not getting to the main charge usually due to a plugged touch hole.

 

[ebiggs1]

There are certain things you can do to make Pyrodex work in a flintlock but it is still unsatisfactory in my opinion. At best the slow ignition is hard to over come if you wish to get anything resembling normal accuracy. Right now I am doing some things trying to foul my flintlock with real black powder and I really don’t see how anyone can say it’s a problem. The last couple days have been 90 degrees plus and 90% plus humidity and I have not fouled the pan at all. Stick with real black powder.
Buy that gun and start the adventure. Glad to have you on the forum.

 

[BrownBear]

Right now I am doing some things trying to foul my flintlock with real black powder and I really don’t see how anyone can say it’s a problem.

Obviously you haven't tried 32 degrees and misty fog with a little wind. Heck. You can collect enough moisture from the air for a failure with 4f in the time it takes you to prime, set your feet, aim and pull the trigger if you don't start with a clean dry pan. And 3f isn't much better. Haven't tried 2f, but the way the weather has been going this spring I'm going to have to if I want to shoot at all. Right now 90 degrees and 90% sounds like heaven. :grin:

 

[ebiggs1]

Right now it is 80 degrees and the humidity is already 99% (9:30AM). They are predicting 95 and severe storms this afternoon. (June5th). I am going to shoot is and see when it fouls up the pan. I am using 4f. Of course when/if the storms come I will be done!

 

[BrownBear]

The big difference appears to be pan fouling from a previous shot. It seems to pick up moisture from the air really fast and 4f turns to black soup almost the instant you put it in the pan, and 3f isn't a whole lot better. A nice clean pan, or at least one that has been wiped well after the last shot is "almost" fine. I say that because I'm starting to suspect that in addition to cleaning the pan I also need use a pipe cleaner or something in and around the touch hole. The tiniest bit of fouling starts the soup to forming right there, and even though the powder in the pan ignites, the fire can't get past the soup in the touch hole.

 

[J.D.]

I have had a wet mush of fowling residue in the pan when shooting in high humidity. I just wipe the pan dry for the next shot. IMHO,it's simple enough.

IMHO, wiping the pan is just one of the small pleasures in the adventure of shooting flint guns.

God bless

 

[ebiggs1]

"IMHO, wiping the pan is just one of the small pleasures in the adventure of shooting flint guns."

I like that answer very much, Thanx and God bless you too!

 

[paulvallandigham]

Perhaps I am too much a "Neatnik", but when I was shooting percussion( and still shooting my percussion DB shotgun) I always wipe the nipples off with a cleaning patch, before cleaning the barrels, for the next powder charge. It forced me to check those nipples after each shot, to check their condition, look for blockages( that might require using a wire to clear the hole), and, of course, make sure the spent caps are removed.

Wiping off the frizzen, flint, and then flashpan with a cleaning patch is simply NO problem- its now a function of habit that requires no conscious consideration.Putting new priming powder- any granule size--- into a dirty pan seems counterproductive to me. Only in really BELOW FREEZING temperatures, when the air is dry as a bone, do I stop worrying about moisture fouling my priming charge. However, If its snowing out, that presents its own problems.

I don't make shooting my flintlocks complicated- but I do pay attention to the weather, wind direction, and relative humidity as its reflected by the "feel" of the bore when loading it, and by the nature of the residue on cleaning patches when they come out of the muzzle. It may sound complicated- but only to someone who walks through life in Condition White- totally oblivious to the world around him/her. :thumbsup:

 

[Kentuckywindage]

American Pioneer will actually do great in a flintlock but you still need the real stuff for the pan. If i had to hunt with american in the barrel, i'd have confidence in it. 2F believe it or not shoots faster than 3f in my flintlock.

 

[ebiggs1]

"I don't make shooting my flintlocks complicated"

You didn't actually say that? :shocked2:

 

[paulvallandigham]

Yes, I did. But someone like you won't listen, or understand because you are still NEW to flintlocks. There are Lots of things to do setting up a flintlock initially. But, once they are done, I just load, shoot, clean and load again.

I see and Feel things just cocking the hammer back on a flintlock that would mean nothing to you, because of the all the years I have worked on flintlock actions. I try to share those observations with members here. I KNOW what a fast flintlock IS, and I know how to make a slow flintlock fast.

I have the same problem( of disbelief) when reading tracks to those who are uninformed. They can't believe how much information I can glean from tracks and sign with just a glance at the tracks. Even when I point out the portion of the tracks that confirm what I have said, the uninformed are in shock. They do not know what they are looking at, have no base of knowledge to make correlations between elements in the tracks and sign, and body movements, and until they watch and listen to me read tracks and sign, have no idea that ANYONE on this earth can do such a thing, much less me.

If you get the mistaken idea that shooting a flintlock is complex, that is your problem-- not mine. There are lots of ways people screw up these mechanisms to cause hang fires, and misfires. Most are done through pure ignorance. If I tell them what to do to correct it, am I making this " complicated"????? Say What????? Are:youcrazy: ????? :shocked2:

 

[ebiggs1]

At just how many shots does an individual have to shoot, in your eyes, to move on from “are still NEW to flintlocks”? Just because a person doesn’t subscribe to the Paul H. Vallandigham school of flintlock shooting, make him a person that won’t listen and therefore ignorant. Well Mr. Vallandigham, I have tried most if not all your advice and I have even read your tips on shooting flintlock form another site. I am mostly not as narcissistic and make others feel inferior either. I have tried all the things you recommend but quit frankly some of your stuff doesn’t work well. Some of it does and I do that. Thanx for that help.
I can’t just cock a flintlock and tell if it going to work or what’s wrong with it and I surely have no idea what “tracking” has to do with this.

 

[Swampman]

Shooting flintlocks is very easy. Try not to over think things.

 

[rawhide]

I like that response on that one. :thumbsup: how do you make a flint shoot faster? more powder less powder or what... on traking I guess you mean hunting. on that I say as a hunter and tracker myself plus gun smith. (for over 15 years with a smoke pole. gotten 5 elk and 1 black tail deer with a cva .54 hawken and a cast 380 grn. r.e.a.l. bullet and 90 grns. of rs. what dose hunting have to do with it. ok a whent off half cocked here. but my self am new to flints. so any help I welcome please that way some day I get as good as you guys. oh and I'm a 5 time state champ with that same gun...

 

[paulvallandigham]

If you are having problems with my advice, its because there is a failure to communicate. I apologize. :surrender: :hmm: I can tell you that if you do the things I describe, CORRECTLY, they do work.

That is why early on when you first joined the site, I took the time to look up BLACK POWDER GUN CLUBS that were located near you in both Kansas and Missouri, so that you might find someone to mentor you as you learn to shoot BP guns.

Communicating details about shooting flintlocks is so much easier when done in person, than over this computer, no matter how well I speak and write English.

I have experienced the same problems of communicating information to some of my students in my Hunter Safety Courses, over more than 25 years of teaching, and find that asking them to come up where I can show them what I am talking about tends to clear up 99% of the confusion.

I know that if we spent a couple of hours together shooting, we would resolve any issues you think you have with my advice. :thumbsup:

 

[ebiggs1]

Let’s take this point-by-point.

If you are having problems with my advice, its because there is a failure to communicate. I apologize. can tell you that if you do the things I describe, CORRECTLY, they do work.

I never said they didn’t work, I merely stated some don’t work well. Lead flint wrap is a for instance.

That is why early on when you first joined the site, I took the time to look up BLACK POWDER GUN CLUBS that were located near you in both Kansas and Missouri, so that you might find someone to mentor you as you learn to shoot BP guns.

And guess what, I checked each one out. None are close to me by the way. Each has am issue that didn’t appeal to me.

Communicating details about shooting flintlocks is so much easier when done in person, than over this computer, no matter how well I speak and write English.

This we have a strong agreement on.

I have experienced the same problems of communicating information to some of my students in my Hunter Safety Courses, over more than 25 years of teaching, and find that asking them to come up where I can show them what I am talking about tends to clear up 99% of the confusion.

I was the Die Making Trainer/Instructor for Hallmark in Kansas City for 15 years and now, in retirement, I am a music tutor at the local USD231 schools. I can tell you if I treated my students the way you do here, I would not have many left at the end of the week.

I know that if we spent a couple of hours together shooting, we would resolve any issues you think you have with my advice.

I think this unlikely at this point because we have lost mutual respect for each other. When the teacher sees them self as a superior and not as a teacher or does not have the heart of an instructor, little will be taught.
I was humbled early on when I noticed some of my students were suddenly as good as me and than some even got better than me. I realized that, that is the ultimate in success and now it is my goal. Given enough time even an ignorant person like myself can learn to shoot a flintlock. I will never be a champion match shooter and I may never kill another deer and if that is all you consider in being an accomplished flintlock shooter, I concede defeat right now.

 

[ebiggs1]

“After several rounds we had to wipe down the frizzen, and the flint to clean oil residue in order to reduce flash in the pan.”

Back to the original question, if you were getting a flash in the pan your frizzen and flint was still working. Did you mean it failed to fire?

 

[Zoar]

ebiggs--- Very discerning question and further proof you have excellent reading comprehension skills. Study of the initial question indicates he was getting pan flash but no main charge ignition.

As far as tripe seven or that other fake stuff in a flintlock this matter has been discussed many times here and the fake stuff does not work as pan powder and some (albeit a small %) say it is "okay" as the main charge, but I and many others do not like it there either! "Go real Black Powder in your flintlock" is my humble opinion...

It is not that expensive and it works so much more reliably.