Question Based on my Long Experience with Unmentionable SxS vs Total Inexperience with ML SxS

[SOLANCO]

It took me a while to get over the unmentionable world's enthusiasm for longer and more powerful shot cartridges. God knows you need skill, not 3.5 inch magnums, to shoot doves and grouse. In unmentionables now I prefer 2 inch cartridges, or 2.5 inch. I shoot better and I am happier. Which leads to this.
Is this a path to follow with ML BP shotguns? When I look at suggested loads I frankly don't know where in this spectrum they lie. Is it realistic to hunt or clay shoot with the BP equivalent of a 2 inch shot shell?

 

[Britsmoothy]

It took me a while to get over the unmentionable world's enthusiasm for longer and more powerful shot cartridges. God knows you need skill, not 3.5 inch magnums, to shoot doves and grouse. In unmentionables now I prefer 2 inch cartridges, or 2.5 inch. I shoot better and I am happier. Which leads to this.
Is this a path to follow with ML BP shotguns? When I look at suggested loads I frankly don't know where in this spectrum they lie. Is it realistic to hunt or clay shoot with the BP equivalent of a 2 inch shot shell?

Yes.
I have used 3/4 ounce loads in 12g for many a rabbit hunt.

 

[excess650]

Look at the packaging of your unmentionables, drams equivalent is roughly 28gr BP. 3 drams ffg and equal volume of shot is a good place to start.

 

[ohio ramrod]

In shotguns black powder and modern are really very close,unless you go for the magnum modern. I shoot both but prefer the black powder for a full days shooting.

 

[Britsmoothy]

In shotguns black powder and modern are really very close,unless you go for the magnum modern. I shoot both but prefer the black powder for a full days shooting.

Can you clarify your statement sir?
Thank you.

 

[Feltwad]

I take it is you are referring to a 12 bore s/b or d/b shotgun for which I prefer a volume load of powder 2no 1/8 card wads , and 1. 1/16 overshot wad . First what type of game you are going to hunt and is it walk up game , or decoy work of flighting . lets start with walking up here you are going to have birds rising at a short or long distance then a good all round load is 2.3/4 drams of FFG or medium grain black powder to 1.1/8 of 5.or6 shot. Second is decoy work here you will have a killing distant of 25 to 30 yards or less then a load of 2.1/2 drms to 1oz of 6 or better still 7 shot. Last is flighting this is where birds are flighting out to the feeding grounds or flighting in to roost small game such has pigeons or doves, crow etc when flighting out to feed have what you call a flight line and depending on the weather can come in high or low , when they are flighting back to roost on a still or damp night they will come in at a moderate height from 30 up to 40 and even 50 yards high then I go for a load of 2.3/4 drams to 1.1/ oz shot or 3 drms of powder to 1.1/4 oz number 5 shot. For shooting geese over decoys then 10 bore is best with a load of 3.1/4 drms of FFg to 1.3/8 oz of 4 shot has for geese flight then 12 bore is not a suitable calibre a d/b 8 or 6 Is best because these will be at least 50 yards plus high with a 10 is the largest in the States so I would say goose flight will not be popular
Whether decoying or flighting most important is fieldcraft plays an important part on a good or bad day it is best to watch birds that are flighting out to feed and which fields they are feeding on and also which line of flight they are taking on their return to roost for a couple of days, it is no good just setting up any where on a field and expect to make a reasonable bag you may be lucky but most likely not . Enclosed is some loads that I mainly use on 12 and 16 bores
Feltwad
All FFg and Medium Black powder
2.1/2 Drms to 1oz of shot
2.3/4 drms to 1.1/8 of shot
3 drms to 1.1/4 oz of shot
3.1/4 drms to 1.3/8 0z of shot
3.1/2 drmas to 1,1/2 oz f shot this load is more suited for a 10 bore

 

[LawrenceA]

Is it realistic to hunt or clay shoot with the BP equivalent of a 2 inch shot shell?

Absolutely!
As you say it is more quality than quantity.
@Britsmoothy and @Feltwad are among the masters of smoothbore (no offense to all the others out there) and their advice is usually spot on.
One thing with blackpowder guns is there scalability.
It is simple to use a 20g or a 28g load in a 12g.
As mentioned above what you are trying to do is replicate the "dram equivalent" Take a look at your 2 1/2" shells.
Take note of the weight of shot or dram equivalent.
Basically you need the same volume of shot as powder. light shot lower powder and vice versa.
The big difference is in patterning and choke. There is generally more experimentation with black powder guns to get a tight pattern.
Traditionally Blackpowder guns were cylinder choke so range was more limited.

Hope this helps

 

[Old Hawkeye]

You will find that velocity in your BP shotgun will be less than in your equivalent modern shotshell loads. Using the right size wads & cards along with your powder/shot charge combination will allow you to create any "load" you care to. Using the same measure to load your powder as you do the shot (a "square" load) is a good place to start. Upping the shot weight with any given powder charge will tend to tighten patterns, while upping the powder charge with any given shot load will tend to open patterns. Keeping it simple is the best approach, IMHO. I don't use any of the fiber cushion wads or any of the oil soaked concoctions, shot cups, & such. Just some thin overshot cards, both over the powder & the shot with one load that uses a lube wool felt wad. Finding your actual bore size is important so you get the correct cards. Lots of BP shotguns say they are a certain gauge, but actually are a gauge above or below what is stamped on the barrel. My 12 gauge is a 12, but my 20 gauge is a 19. Read the threads here about loading & shooting to get some idea of what you want to try. There are no hard & fast rules, so just have fun experimenting & you will find what's best for you & your shotgun. BTW, stay away from the screw in chokes!

 

[SOLANCO]

You will find that velocity in your BP shotgun will be less than in your equivalent modern shotshell loads. Using the right size wads & cards along with your powder/shot charge combination will allow you to create any "load" you care to. Using the same measure to load your powder as you do the shot (a "square" load) is a good place to start. Upping the shot weight with any given powder charge will tend to tighten patterns, while upping the powder charge with any given shot load will tend to open patterns. Keeping it simple is the best approach, IMHO. I don't use any of the fiber cushion wads or any of the oil soaked concoctions, shot cups, & such. Just some thin overshot cards, both over the powder & the shot with one load that uses a lube wool felt wad. Finding your actual bore size is important so you get the correct cards. Lots of BP shotguns say they are a certain gauge, but actually are a gauge above or below what is stamped on the barrel. My 12 gauge is a 12, but my 20 gauge is a 19. Read the threads here about loading & shooting to get some idea of what you want to try. There are no hard & fast rules, so just have fun experimenting & you will find what's best for you & your shotgun. BTW, stay away from the screw in chokes!

My ML SxS has one tube cylinder and screw in in the other. I can see the possible utility, but would have preferred otherwise.

 

[Britsmoothy]

You will find that velocity in your BP shotgun will be less than in your equivalent modern shotshell loads. Using the right size wads & cards along with your powder/shot charge combination will allow you to create any "load" you care to. Using the same measure to load your powder as you do the shot (a "square" load) is a good place to start. Upping the shot weight with any given powder charge will tend to tighten patterns, while upping the powder charge with any given shot load will tend to open patterns. Keeping it simple is the best approach, IMHO. I don't use any of the fiber cushion wads or any of the oil soaked concoctions, shot cups, & such. Just some thin overshot cards, both over the powder & the shot with one load that uses a lube wool felt wad. Finding your actual bore size is important so you get the correct cards. Lots of BP shotguns say they are a certain gauge, but actually are a gauge above or below what is stamped on the barrel. My 12 gauge is a 12, but my 20 gauge is a 19. Read the threads here about loading & shooting to get some idea of what you want to try. There are no hard & fast rules, so just have fun experimenting & you will find what's best for you & your shotgun. BTW, stay away from the screw in chokes!

This is absolutely true.
The dram equivalent ratings on a box of cartridges merely rates what the user can expect from the ammunition based on a muzzleloaders performance loaded thus. It is somewhat out dated now but the ammunition would possibly be loaded with less than stated due to the increase in efficiency from a cartridge.
Dram equivalent is a hang over from the days of the first introduction of smokeless propellants.

 

[ohio ramrod]

Can you clarify your statement sir?
Thank you.

The performance of the black powder shotguns is basicly equal to the performance of modern shotguns . Until you start with the magnum moderns. If you compare the patterns, ranges, and pellet velocities, the black powder shotguns perform as well as modern.It is true that more people who shoot black powder muzzle loaders do not use full chokes going with open or modified but they are equal to modern shotguns with similar chokes.

 

[Britsmoothy]

The performance of the black powder shotguns is basicly equal to the performance of modern shotguns . Until you start with the magnum moderns. If you compare the patterns, ranges, and pellet velocities, the black powder shotguns perform as well as modern.It is true that more people who shoot black powder muzzle loaders do not use full chokes going with open or modified but they are equal to modern shotguns with similar chokes.

I think you may of been right over 100 year's ago but not today.
Muzzloader shotguns rarely go supersonic with shot loads but most cartridges are supersonic now.

 

[Lorne Johnson]

Your question is actually quite insightful! Personally, I think that the key to happy shooting is to recognize that muzzle loaders work really well out to about 25-30 yards for wingshooting, and clays. At that range everything works, 3/4 to 1 ounce of shot 65 to 75 grains powder, the birds come down and you won't beat yourself up. Probably need to lengthen your lead some on crossing shots. When I've tried to get 40 yards, I find that nothing works right, and it kicks like a mule. (Turkey hunting would be a different situation.)