Question From 1st Timer.... 12Ga. Turkey Loads

[mcdenney]

I bought a 12 ga. side lock muzzleloader (T/C Black Mountain Magnum) a couple years ago and last year began trying to play with loads, etc. to get the best turkey pattern. So far, I am not satisfied with what I have come up with, good to about 30 yards and that is it. As Turkey season is approaching it's once again time to start working on improving my pattern. One thing that I questioned last year was I using too much powder? I think it was blowing my pattern? I have reduced my powder down to about 75grains of FFF black powder with 1 1/2 grains of #5's. I'm also using a standard shot cup which hold 1.5 oz's of shot. The question I have is relative to chokes but if anyone has any suggestions I'm all ears. I was using tight turkey choke tubes (Hastings .660 Turkey Tube) and I was wondering if I should try a standard full choke instead of the tight turkey choke tube to see if this could effect my pattern as well (blowing my pattern). If anyone has any recommendations or tips I would appreciate the advice. Also, I this needs to be asked on another board please advise.

 

[Rebel]

First off i would try using 2f powder instead of 3f. 3f peakes to fast and may be the cause of your plown patterns. Try 80-90 grs of 2f and 1 1/4- 1 1/2oz of shot and see if things don't improve for you. :m2c:

 

[GobblerKnob]

There's a whole bunch of info on the smoothbore forum regarding loads. Take a look. Maybe it will help. Rick

 

[smokeblower]

I use 100 grains of 2f and 1&3/4 oz #4 shot with good results

 

[nit wit]

Make your own shot cups out of brown grocery bag material.
Ray aka.NIT WIT :m2c:

 

[mcdenney]

Thanks guys for the suggestions. Just curious, exactly what is your setup. What gun? What choke? How do you load your gun for turkeys (powder, shot size, fiber wad, shot cups, etc.)?

I have been asking around and some don't use shot cups. They told me they can hurt your pattern because they do not fit muzzleloading shotguns and therefore doesn't seal correctly. Any truth to this? They just use a fiber wad over the powder, load the shot and then use two over the shot cards. The shot cups I purchased were supposed to be for muzzleloaders. You can cut the cups down the sides and supposedly play with your pattern. Haven't noticed much difference on this but thought a shot cup would help hold the pattern together. Just learnin though!

 

[Rebel]

I have a Navy Arms double barrel .12 ga. with 28" cylinder bore barrels. I use plastic shotcups in mine. With Win. AA shotcups for lead shot i just use the wad over the powder. I have taken a lot of jackrabbits, dove, quail, and cottontails with this combo. For ducks and geese i use an over powder wad over 90-95 grs of Pyrodex RS, then a thick steel shot plastic shot cup, 1 1/4oz of steel shot and a thin overshot card wad. This works good for me. The ony way you will know for sure is to try different combos with your gun. For turkeys, where you want a real tight pattern, you might try the thick steel shot plastic shot cups cut down to hold 1 1/4 - 1 1/2 oz of shot over 80-95 grs of 2f BP or Pyrodex RS.

 

[Huntinfool]

It's most likely different with every gun but mine patterns better with fiber wads than with plastic shot cups and plastic cushion wads.

The only way to be sure is to do the range work but hey that's half the fun! :results:

Chuck

 

[The Baron]

Last year, I used an antique percussion fowler (sidelock, cylinder bore) of about 11ga. I loaded 80gr. FFg, overpowder card, pre-lubed overshot wad, 1 1/8oz. #6 lead and overshot card with no shot cup. I set my personal max. range at 15 yards and killed both my turkeys at 17 paces. After the season closed, I experimented with regular 12ga. shot cups (AA's) with the piston part cut off. After a bit of fiddling, I got 80 gr FFg and 1 1/4 oz #6 (same overpowder, lubed wad and overshot cards) patterning well enough to be confident to about 20 yards. Alas, after killing 2 geese and a nice mallard drake one morning in October I decided to retire the old gun, as it was just a little too rickety for regular use. (I used a brew of 80 gr. FFg, overpowder card, pre-lubed wad and 1 1/8oz. Tungsten-Matrix #3's in the Kent factory wad, pillaged from T-M shells and with piston cut off).

Now I have a T/C New Englander 12ga with cylinder bore. I started experimenting a few days ago. After trying from 80 gr. FFg to 100 gr. FFg and from 1 1/4 to 1 13/8oz. shot, I found 90 gr. FFg, overpowder card, pre-lubed wad, 1 1/4 oz. #6 and overshot card patterned the best. But, I'm still only good for 20 yards. I will be experimenting with heavier shot charges, shot cups, etc. to try and better this in the next week or two. I need to buy different wads, because the ones I have are for 1 1/8oz. loads and the cups are too short for any more.

Hope that helps a bit, but every gun is different.
Baron

 

[Bob J]

Had a CVA 12 ga. double (modified/modified) that liked 3 1/4 drams 2f and 1 1/4 oz. #6s using CVA plastic shot cups. Believe that was the old equal volume powder/shot formula. Now as a point of interest, my Pedersoli 10 ga (impvd cyl/mod) likes overpowder card and 1/2" fiber wad with 110 gr 2f (4 drams) and 1 1/2 oz. #5s. This is skewed heavier towards the POWDER as old British chart suggests. The gun will not pattern with volume-for-volume loads or loads that are "shot heavy". The improved cylinder barrel patterns even beter than the modified barrel. :m2c:

 

[rayb]

i've had similar experience with cylinder vs. choked guns....

equal volume loads work ok in cylinder bores, more powder than shot (volume) in choked guns

:results:


rayb

 

[The Baron]

OK - I have more news from the range with my 12ga. New Englander (cylinder bore). I added a steel shot cup to the equation, and gained a good 5 - 10 yards in comfortable range. All loads had overpowder card, 1 pre-lubed wad, shot cup and 1 overshot card. I tried 90 gr. FFg with 1 1/4, 1 3/8 and 1 1/2oz. of shot. The 1 1/4 and 1 1 3/8oz. were similar, but the 1 1/2oz. hit about 1 ft. left for some reason and wasn't any tighter. So I settled on about 1 3/8 oz. shot (which, conveniently, is just the amount needed to fill the shot cups I have. So, no shot measure needed, just fill the cup and drop 'er in!). With this 90gr. 1 3/8oz load, I have a good turkey patern to 30 yards max. Not bad for a straight tube.

Interestingly, I tried a 100gr. FFg charge and it blew my pattern wide open. A huge change from 90gr. !

 

[mcdenney]

Wish I had mine figured out. I have T/C Black Mountain Mangnum with screw-in choke tubes and so far about 30yards is it. I think I have a couple problems in that I was using CVA shotcups and also FFFg Black Powder. I have been calling and talking to several people, including Thompson Center. They recommend the following load for turkeys:

100grains of FFg with 2 Natural Wads or Ox_Yoke Wonder Wads (The gunsmith indicated their natural wads and the Ox-Yoke are the same, not sure about that), equal volume of Shot with 1 Natural Wad/Wonder Wad On Top. Realizing that I may have to adjust both powder and shot to improve my results. I hope to be able to shot 40 yards top end.

 

[The Baron]

mcdenny... I'm by NO means an expert yet, but definitely switch to FFg for 12ga. Also, I would recommend an over powder card to seperate the lubed wads from the powder charge. If you end up carrying the load all day, I don't know what the lube might to to the powder charge.

A 90gr. FFg charge would be about 1 1/8oz. shot charge for equal volume. I found good pattern with more shot than powder, and a terrible pattern when I went to 100gr. powder. Also, make sure to try different shot sizes once you have a good looking load. My gun throws #4 just as tight as #6's (same count on target) so I'll gladly take the extra punch and use it. Good luck!

 

[RussB]

......snip....... With this 90gr. 1 3/8oz load, I have a good turkey patern to 30 yards max. Not bad for a straight tube.

Interestingly, I tried a 100gr. FFg charge and it blew my pattern wide open. A huge change from 90gr. !

Baron...I see you are coming along very nicely with your loads. You are "right on the money", about experimenting and trying different combinations.

What works for you may be my worse, and vice versa. The only way of knowing is to step up, and give it a try. Good going with your experiments! Save me a drum stick off that Turkey, I just know you are going to get one. :thumbsup: :redthumb:

Russ

 

[mcdenney]

Yeah, good point on the over the powder card. I wondered about that. Also, I intend to try some different combinations once I get something descent on paper. Right now after a couple days of trying everything I knew (which wasn't much other than different powder charges/shot combo's) I'm not where I need to be. I hope this recommendation will get me close. Thanks for the guidance gang I really appreciate the help.

Gobble. Gobble...... :agree:

 

[Hoyt]

This is the same gun you have and I used 95grs. blk. pwdr. one thin overpowder card one t.c. felt cushion wad 100grs by volume nickle plated 6's 20grs by volume nickle plated no. 4's and 1 thin overshot card..rem. no. 11cap. with comp-n-choke turkey tube to kill this ole Osecola gobbler last season.
Using flintlock this yr. and haven't got a shot yet.

 

[mcdenney]

Hoyt,

Good looking bird. Also, thanks for the info. Just curious what type pattern you got from this load and what is your effect range? Are you good out to 40 yards with this load? Thanks in advance.

Mcdenney

 

[Hoyt]

Mcdenney..I never got that gun to pattern good..bought a Mad Max choke, a Comp-n-choke and one other one can't remember the name..have 4 different turkey chokes for it countin the one that came with the gun and none shot a real good pattern. Bout 5 to 7 hits in head and spine at 35yds. was best I could do with it. My .20ga. Pecatonica, Virginia style smooth bore I just put together shoots a better pattern.

 

[mcdenney]

Thanks for responding. That is what I was afraid of. That is about what I am getting and I am not happy with it. I may put a post out there to see if anyone has one of these guys and what type patterns everyone is getting. Thanks again.