Question regarding historical knife sheaths

[Runewolf1973]

Just wondering what was the most common 18th century method for securing a knife sheath (long knife/trade knife) to a belt? There are lots of pictures online of trade style knives and sheaths, but basically none ot them show the back of the sheath, only the front. I can't tell if they have belt loops in back or what. Did they just use a leather thong to tie the sheath to the belt?

I would like to make a side seam sheath kinda like the one in the picture. Also, would a sheath like this have a heavier leather liner with a welt and the brain tan stretched over top? Curious how these were constructed.

Thanks.

 

[Runewolf1973]

Here is another one just for an example. I think this knife was made by Scott Summerville.

Anyways, would the back of a sheath like this feature a belt loop? I just want to be as historically accurate as possible.

 

[Brokennock]

Generally it seems center seam with no loop, just a flap on the front to keep the sheath from slipping down from behind the belt or sash, often with a thong through a hole at the top of the seam to tie off so if it gets pushed up over the belt it doesn't get lost.
Here is one example I made, maybe not the best, but, not the worst either,

The pics were originally taken because of the replacement handle I did on the knife, but, they are the best ones I can find of the sheath.
Sheaths with belt loops did exist, they just don't seem to have been as common.
If you go with an edge seam you will need a welt, if you go side seam you don't. Essentially the pattern for the main body of the sheath is the same either way. For the center seam I make the pattern for the flap separately and tape it to the main sheath pattern centered on the top width.
For edge seam with a belt loop, how and where you plan to add the loop will determine how to add the loop to your pattern.

 

[Brokennock]

Just wondering what was the most common 18th century method for securing a knife sheath (long knife/trade knife) to a belt? There are lots of pictures online of trade style knives and sheaths, but basically none ot them show the back of the sheath, only the front. I can't tell if they have belt loops in back or what. Did they just use a leather thong to tie the sheath to the belt?

I would like to make a side seam sheath kinda like the one in the picture. Also, would a sheath like this have a heavier leather liner with a welt and the brain tan stretched over top? Curious how these were constructed. View attachment 89813Thanks.

BTW, I certainly hope this sheath in your 1st post has a liner. Not only is the leather showing too easy to cut or pierce, it is too floppy. By not maintaining its shape and position when the knife is returned to the sheath, the odds of stabbing through the sheath greatly increase.

 

[Artificer]

Just wondering what was the most common 18th century method for securing a knife sheath (long knife/trade knife) to a belt? There are lots of pictures online of trade style knives and sheaths, but basically none ot them show the back of the sheath, only the front. I can't tell if they have belt loops in back or what. Did they just use a leather thong to tie the sheath to the belt?

I would like to make a side seam sheath kinda like the one in the picture. Also, would a sheath like this have a heavier leather liner with a welt and the brain tan stretched over top? Curious how these were constructed. Thanks.

Here's a video Brokennock originally sent to me and asking if it was a good one to follow for the most common 18th century, center seam sheath. While it doesn't go into the details to make one as nice as forum members Capt Jas or LRB make them, it is a decent guide to doing it.



Gus

 

[Runewolf1973]

Here's a video Brokennock originally sent to me and asking if it was a good one to follow for the most common 18th century, center seam sheath. While it doesn't go into the details to make one as nice as forum members Capt Jas or LRB make them, it is a decent guide to doing it.



Gus

Thanks. At the 23:36 mark he shows a side seam sheath very much like the one in the second photo I posted. It appears there is no belt loop, just a leather cord for tying to the sash or belt.

 

[Red Owl]

Well, hard to know for sure but in general terms I think a sheath had no belt loop and was just tucked under the belt. Like the rest of you- I'm always afraid the thing will slip out so I use a thong to tie in the sheath.
IF YOU WET the leather you can rotate the sheath to make it a center seam, seam in front. This puts leather over the edge of the blade, versus some stitches holding the edge.
Crazy Crow sells real sinew- I like it a also. The "strings" are about 10" and wet all but the tip- leave the tip dry and it works like a needle but you need an awl to make the holes. Do a wrap stitch. When one thread is running out just feed it a new one and bind it down with the wraps going over it- ez.

 

[Rató:rats]

The centre seam sheath for my boucheron by Ben Hoffman has a belt loop. As often as not even with this feature I just tuck it under my sash and forgo the loop.

 

[Artificer]

Thanks. At the 23:36 mark he shows a side seam sheath very much like the one in the second photo I posted. It appears there is no belt loop, just a leather cord for tying to the sash or belt.

Back a few years and before he passed too soon, forum member Chuck Burrows aka La Bonte posted pictures of original 18th century Trade Knife Sheaths and they all had ties on them to tie them to the sash or belt.

This made sense as while leather waist belts were not uncommon, they were not nearly as common as sashes. No sense in adding belt loops to the mass production of period trade knife sheaths when a majority of the end users didn't wear waist belts. For those who did, the ties still allowed one to attach them to the leather belt.

Gus

 

[Red Owl]

Good point that I never thought about- belt loops are too small for a sash.