Questions about about building your own

[50cal.cliff]

I have a lot of experience with wood working and have been giving considerable thought on building my own custom rifle.

My biggest concerns is locating of parts on the blank not whether I can inlet them or not!

For instance how do you know at what point to stop the inlet of the barrel?

How do you locate the lock for a percussion rifle as far as towards the barrel or the butt?

How do you locate the lock for height wise/up and down on the stock?

I assume the proper depth of the lock comes with proper hammer alignment?

How do you know when the trigger is properly aligned with the lock?

I know some of you are reading this and probably thinking that poor lost soul and I may be but, the location of parts concerns me far more than inletting side of the project.

I know I can do that but if I have the location screwed up a good and proper inlet ain't gonna matter now is it!

So is there a reference for all this? I would assume some of the locations change slightly based on the brand of lock of trigger you are using.

How do you know what to move for what lock, etc. etc.?

I am anxious to try my hand at building one from parts and a blank but scared as to getting everything located wrong and screwing up a nice piece of wood.

Anyone got any advice on doing a build as how to locate the parts?

 

[Len Graves]

Those are very good questions to ask BEFORE you start whittling. There are several very good books on recreating the rifle. One that comes to mind is The Gunsmith of Grenville co. By Alexander. I have used this book and know that all the questions you asked are answered in there. Another good one is by Dixon But I forget the name (someone here will help me/us remember) There are also several recordings which show the process (One by Alexander) There are several more and I recommend getting all the visual advice you can. Parts are so expensive these days it is better to do it right the first time than to flounder about like I did for years. I still have some of my false starts laying around to remind me. Good luck and let us see that masterpiece when you finish it.

 

[jdkerstetter]

Use this link: http://www.trackofthewolf.com/List/Category.aspx/264

Scroll down to gunbuilding. Under Building & Gunsmithing Muzzleloading Guns you will find "The Art of Building the Pennsylvania Longrifle" and "Recreating the American Longrifle". The second one is a little more $ but contains blueprints for a pistol and a rifle. These books are must haves for the beginning builder IMHO.

Also under gunbuilding you will see Plans: Drawings & Blueprints. There you will find some nice full size plans to build several different styles of guns that make parts lay out as painless as possible.

Other than that all I can tell you is to handle as many original guns as humanly possible.

Now these books and more are availible through other sources...just using TOW as an easy example.

Enjoy, J.D.

 

[necchi]

Good advice to get the/a book.

Basically?

For instance how do you know at what point to stop the inlet of the barrel?

When the entire bottom flat is on the wood.

How do you locate the lock for a percussion rifle as far as towards the barrel or the butt?

Everything is located in respect to the barrel flash hole location or nipple ignition,
Pretty simple, :wink:

Of course you need to look at it for shape and balance, and your 2nd rifle will be better than the 1st.
But haveing wood working skills and basic tools is a huge +

 

[Capt. Fred]

Yup, get a book or two and a DVD or two. American Pioneer video has some good ones.

Also, look at the Mike Brooks tutorial that is on page 2 of the current thread.

It might be a good idea to start with a partially done pre-carve. You can get one with the basic architecture roughed out, the barrel inlet, and the ram rod hole and groove done. Dave Keck, Pecatonica, Jim Chambers, Track of the Wolf, Tip Curtis, and several others all offer pre-carves in different levels of completion. That way, the basic shaping is done for you and you can focus on the finer points.

There is a ton to learn and starting with a blank might make it tougher than it needs to be. It definitely can be done if that where your interest is.

 

[ApprenticeBuilder]

With your backgroung I would encourage you to purchase a builders book,

Recreating The American Longrifle would be my first pick as its a great resource,

Also the book from Dixon, The Art Of Building The Pennsylvania Longrifle is another good book.

It is then easy to peruse the information and figure out if the process is right for you. I recommend the book over the online tutorial as it is much less distracting to study.

If you decide that the build is not for you, you can re-sell the book for nearly what you paid for it and your not out much.

One major consideration to ponder is this, can you make a mistake or several of them and not get discouraged and finish the project.

Many times I read of a poster that allows themselves to be talked into buying a set of parts only to realize that they really cannot get past the major hurdle of working thru a mistake.

We just had a guy that went thru it here, bought a set of parts, started asking for advise, listening to the wrong people and made several mistakes, seen that he had his parts listed in the classifieds here a short while back.

Just a few thoughts to ponder.

 

[Bill Hall]

I agree with starting with a book or dvd. If we answered all your questions right now, it would be like writing a book anyway. Kinda like asking, "How do I build a car?" Get a video or book, study it a while, plan your build, then ask questions as you go. Expect a few mistakes. Good luck. :thumbsup: Bill

 

[Paul R]

You don't say what kind of woodworking you have done, but if you have done some carving or have built a fine chair, jump right in & don't look back. My first build was a TC Hawken re-stock. It helped to have the original stock right there for instant reference. That was before I even realized this site existed. Since then, I have been a steady reader here & have learned a terrific amount, including what a lot of mistakes I made on my first build. I'm now in the final stages of my third build, starting with a plank & a set of expensive parts. I don't know that I am ready to start selling, but I'm happy with what I have for my own use.
If the thought of messing up a set of expensive parts is what is holding you back, scrounge up a used hawken from TC or one of the other commercial companies and restock it to be the nicest rifle you can. Change the style so somebody would have to look close to see it really started out as a Hawken. Worse case scenario, if you mess up or decide you really don't like building rifles, you can always resell the parts on ebay & probably recoupe (sp?)at least most of your investment.
The advice on getting Shumway's Recreatind the American Long Rifle is excellent. The other references may be just as good, but this is the only one I am really familiar with. AND, don't forget to keep checking back here for advice and progress reports
Paul

 

[50cal.cliff]

You don't say what kind of woodworking you have done, but if you have done some carving or have built a fine chair, jump right in & don't look back. My first build was a TC Hawken re-stock. It helped to have the original stock right there for instant reference. That was before I even realized this site existed. Since then, I have been a steady reader here & have learned a terrific amount, including what a lot of mistakes I made on my first build. I'm now in the final stages of my third build, starting with a plank & a set of expensive parts. I don't know that I am ready to start selling, but I'm happy with what I have for my own use.
If the thought of messing up a set of expensive parts is what is holding you back, scrounge up a used hawken from TC or one of the other commercial companies and restock it to be the nicest rifle you can. Change the style so somebody would have to look close to see it really started out as a Hawken. Worse case scenario, if you mess up or decide you really don't like building rifles, you can always resell the parts on ebay & probably recoupe (sp?)at least most of your investment.
The advice on getting Shumway's Recreatind the American Long Rifle is excellent. The other references may be just as good, but this is the only one I am really familiar with. AND, don't forget to keep checking back here for advice and progress reports
Paul

I started doing carpentry with my Dad a third generation carpenter, at age thirteen. I have done about ever facet of construction at one time or another, in my life.

In the later years before I got hurt and the heart surgery put me out of it. I was building fine furniture and custom cabinets.

I have handled a chisel extensively and have a good knowledge of what works and what doesn't when it comes to finishing.That is why I say I don't worry as much about that part of the build!

However I know from installing mortised pieces on cabinetry and furniture that position and depth is key, to function and work-ability!

When I was asking about where to stop with the barrel I wasn't speaking about depth of the barrel.
Rather more about forward towards the barrel end of the stock or backward towards the butt end of the stock.

I understand that barrels position begins to dictate the position of the lock.

However when it comes to forward and backward of the lock, I am assuming the hammer strike would determine that. All though I am not sure about that and I don't know anything about the height of the lock in the stock unless, once again the hammer strike determines that!

As far as the placement of the triggers I am really not sure what part of the trigger determines placement!
Also I know depth can make and break performance with a trigger as I had one that had to be inlet more in a kit to get it too work correctly.

I think what I am going to do is take a blank and rebuild a .50 Traditions rifle a St. Louis Hawken style, I have that the stock got broken on.
Don't ask but it has to do with leaning it against a rear bumper and someone moving my truck without asking, while I was in the tent asleep! :shocked2::shake:
Sure shortened my hunt and my rifle for that matter too.:shocked2: :hmm: Guess it could have been worse I guess he could have backed over the barrel!

Anyways, that will give me a little insight as too what I am up against and I have the old stock to make measurement off of! I an not sure that this will allow me to learn the key information, critical for placement of parts. At least maybe when I get through I will have a gun that Traditions would have like to built!

In the meantime I will be watching for a sale on the books and DVDs at TOW. They just had one a while back and well......... :idunno: I didn't know at the time I needed some more books! :rotf:

Thanks everyone for the advice on this I do appreciate it!

 

[Rifleman1776]

Answers given so far are on point. Do get a good book or two.
Read them before ordering parts.
It is well known that it is easy to turn $1,000.00 of parts into a $200.00 rifle.
I would suggest you start with a pre-inletted kit. This will give you a first hand opportunity at visualization of the assembly.
After that, if it turns out well, go for a scratch project.

 

[MSW]

late to the party, but here goes ...

this build you propose will be your first, but you will probably not even finish this one before the next is either actually in process or very heavily contemplated.

The Gunsmith of Grenville County is, to the best of my knowledge, now out of print. When last i looked it up on Amazon, it was going for about the cost of a good lock (i.e., about triple what i paid for my copy).

Having said that, however, i would urge you to 'splurge' on this extravagance: you will (if you're as klutzy as i) save much more than the purchase price on parts you don't ruin. This doesn't count the time you don't spend waiting for the replacement parts to arrive, or the additional time in purgatory you don't spend as a result of the bad language that you will use, or the storied fact that it is simply not possible to remove bloodstains from presentation grade tiger stripe maple.

don't ask me how i know these things :redface:

Additionally, if you go to American Pioneer video, there are any of a number of instructional DVDs which will point you in a good direction. Depending on your 'vision' (neurophysiology?) you may find it easier to visualize a procedure if you see it in motion, as opposed to a static form in a printed version.

just one guy's free opinion, and no doubt well worth the price.

good luck with your build!

 

[Robby]

Cliff, You have a big leg up on some in that you have used and are familiar with using hand tools. Get those books that ApprenticeBuilder recommended. You questioning is getting ahead of yourself. Dive in and go from a blank, you can do it.
Robby

 

[rich pierce]

Step 1 after getting and reading books is to make a blueprint.
Start with the barrel and breechplug.
That determines where the flint vent or drum or snail will be, as it has to be ahead of the breechplug.
Because the lock has to be positioned to fire the gun, the touchhole or drum or snail determines where the lock will be (fore and aft).
The sear of the lock determines where the trigger will be.
The trigger determines where the buttplate will be depending on length of pull.

And so on and so on. The parts, by the way they interact with each other, determine their relationships to each other in space. There is room for style, changing length of the comb and wrist, drop at comb and heel, and many other things but first and always the parts have to be positioned so they work with each other.

 

[50cal.cliff]

Thanks guys I intend to get the books and the DVD's to guide me.

Once I begin to understand exactly how a part interacts with the other part I begin to understand more and more.

The Traditions was originally a kit so it was already pre-intlet. I still do have the stock, so I can take measurements from it but I want to learn all there is too know about this.

No I am not naive enough to figure that is going to happen right off the bat, and I get that! I was just hoping someone had some generic info as how they about doing a build with a given set of parts!

Once again thanks and I will invest in the books as I am able to. Being on a fixed income really sucks! :wink: Then again it's better than the alternative of six feet under! :idunno: :yakyak: :grin: