SchwartzStock
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In my experience shooters are generally much more sociable than fishers....
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questions about Great Plains Signature
- Thread starter Black Jaque Janaviac
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It seems to me the bean counters have been busy at Lyman? The rifles are now unsafe, cost to much and are made over seas? They are selling the sizzle, not the steak? I had the old lymans and they were as close to excellent as a factory rifle could be! It saddens me to see a company that has endured so long with an excellent product stoop so low!
Critter Getter
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As far as I know Investarms had always been the manufacturer for Lyman guns as well as other companies. Of course I could be wrong!
I have a Richland Arms Hawken that was made by Investarms as well. Greg
You are correct about not seeing this amount of data.Good grief! I swear, this morning I was on that same website and they did NOT have that table on the page. I don't know how I could have over-looked it, but I did just have my 50th birthday not long ago.
After I saw your initial post, I checked their site.
No specs., so I wrote them and suggested they should put ALL of their specs. on the product page (as these things are important to round ball shooters).
I got an IMMEDIATE response, which said they would have them on the product page very soon.
THAT is what I would call a good response from a supplier.
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That makes perfect sense! Don't know why I didn't think of that first time! Thanks!
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Thumbs up that!
The gun spec information I posted a screenshot of yesterday has been on the Lyman website for a while. Curious what new data you are referring to?
Lyman has been slow about putting out information regarding the Great Plains Signature Rifles, but some reports have been trickling in. It is logical that people would have questions, and this forum is a good place to present them.
I don't own a Great Plains rifle (GPR... the old model) or a Great Plains Signature rifle (GPS), and in fact have not had the opportunity to examine the GPS "in person." However, I am interested and I've read what I could find. That chart presented by @SDSmlf in post #13 provides welcome information.
As noted, Mike Nesbitt wrote a comprehensive review of the GPS percussion model in .54 caliber in the current (January/February 2021) issue of Muzzleloader magazine. I think it would be worth the cost of this issue just for that review, if you are thinking about buying one of these rifles. Mike does a good job with his reviews. He is one of us. Some of the staff writers for the mainstream gun magazines basically churn out promotional ad copy. Mike's reviews, in my opinion, tell us more of what we need to know, and he does report problems, if there are any.
There was also a very good discussion of the .54 flint version of the GPS which was started brother TreeMan, right here on this forum. He bought one of the rifles, examined it, took it apart, shot it, wrote some comments, and was really good about answering questions all of us had, with plenty of good pictures. Check it out here: Lyman Great Plains Signature Series (Pedersoli) Kudos to @TreeMan , for his patience and good humor!
It appears that Lyman and Pedersoli, working in partnership, "fixed" some of the issues with the Investarms GPR. We wonder if the safety issues that cropped up a couple of years ago might have given the project some impetus. The GPS is a much better-looking rifle, in my opinion, and judging from TreeMan's comments (with pictures of his targets), the new version gives up nothing in shootability and accuracy. Regarding appearance, here are a couple of pictures for comparison, both from Track of the Wolf. First is the old Investarms GPR:
Next is the Pedersoli GPS:
What we see on the Pedersoli rifle is much improved wood-to-metal fit, a better-looking and more traditional snail, and way better carving of the moulding around the lock. One thing you can't appreciate from these photos is that the triggerguard grip rail and scroll have a much more Hawken-like and authentic appearance on the Signature rifle. On the down side, the hammer on the GPS shows more sculpting than the original, which is a slight departure from tradition. Also, it appears that the ramrod pipes (not visible in these pictures) on the Pedersoli rifle are attached on the surface of the underside of the barrel rib, while on the Investarms GPR, the ramrod pipes were slightly recessed, or "cut in." Visually, the difference is you see more daylight between the ramrod and the rib on the Pedersoli rifle than the Investarms. In use, the tip of your ramrod will bump against the thimbles when reinserting it, if the thimbles are not recessed. If the thimbles are cut in, the ramrod glides in more smoothly when being reinserted. This is a small thing, but it is a difference.
The GPS is not just the Pedersoli Rocky Mountain Hawken with cheaper wood. There are some differences.
A lot of people are griping about the price. I've seen the Lyman/Pedersoli GPS listed by some dealers as low as $849.00. Less than the Pedersoli Rocky Mountain Hawken, but more than the old GPR. If you look at the cost of a custom Hawken from one of the recognized builders, you are looking at something north of $2K. The Lyman/Pedersoli GPS is not the same as a custom rifle, but it is a little closer, and that is reflected in the cost. It looks like a fair price to me, considering what you get. I've considered getting one, but the deal breaker for me is the length of pull. At 14", its just a little more than is comfortable, and if I pay that much for a rifle, I want it to fit.
After all of this, if anyone still wants a Lyman/Investarms GPR, they are not hard to find on the used gun market. And, if anybody wants a new one, it appears that Investarms may still have them in production, rebranded with a new name: The InvestArm Gemmer Hawken
Best regards,
Notchy Bob
I don't own a Great Plains rifle (GPR... the old model) or a Great Plains Signature rifle (GPS), and in fact have not had the opportunity to examine the GPS "in person." However, I am interested and I've read what I could find. That chart presented by @SDSmlf in post #13 provides welcome information.
As noted, Mike Nesbitt wrote a comprehensive review of the GPS percussion model in .54 caliber in the current (January/February 2021) issue of Muzzleloader magazine. I think it would be worth the cost of this issue just for that review, if you are thinking about buying one of these rifles. Mike does a good job with his reviews. He is one of us. Some of the staff writers for the mainstream gun magazines basically churn out promotional ad copy. Mike's reviews, in my opinion, tell us more of what we need to know, and he does report problems, if there are any.
There was also a very good discussion of the .54 flint version of the GPS which was started brother TreeMan, right here on this forum. He bought one of the rifles, examined it, took it apart, shot it, wrote some comments, and was really good about answering questions all of us had, with plenty of good pictures. Check it out here: Lyman Great Plains Signature Series (Pedersoli) Kudos to @TreeMan , for his patience and good humor!
It appears that Lyman and Pedersoli, working in partnership, "fixed" some of the issues with the Investarms GPR. We wonder if the safety issues that cropped up a couple of years ago might have given the project some impetus. The GPS is a much better-looking rifle, in my opinion, and judging from TreeMan's comments (with pictures of his targets), the new version gives up nothing in shootability and accuracy. Regarding appearance, here are a couple of pictures for comparison, both from Track of the Wolf. First is the old Investarms GPR:
Next is the Pedersoli GPS:
What we see on the Pedersoli rifle is much improved wood-to-metal fit, a better-looking and more traditional snail, and way better carving of the moulding around the lock. One thing you can't appreciate from these photos is that the triggerguard grip rail and scroll have a much more Hawken-like and authentic appearance on the Signature rifle. On the down side, the hammer on the GPS shows more sculpting than the original, which is a slight departure from tradition. Also, it appears that the ramrod pipes (not visible in these pictures) on the Pedersoli rifle are attached on the surface of the underside of the barrel rib, while on the Investarms GPR, the ramrod pipes were slightly recessed, or "cut in." Visually, the difference is you see more daylight between the ramrod and the rib on the Pedersoli rifle than the Investarms. In use, the tip of your ramrod will bump against the thimbles when reinserting it, if the thimbles are not recessed. If the thimbles are cut in, the ramrod glides in more smoothly when being reinserted. This is a small thing, but it is a difference.
The GPS is not just the Pedersoli Rocky Mountain Hawken with cheaper wood. There are some differences.
A lot of people are griping about the price. I've seen the Lyman/Pedersoli GPS listed by some dealers as low as $849.00. Less than the Pedersoli Rocky Mountain Hawken, but more than the old GPR. If you look at the cost of a custom Hawken from one of the recognized builders, you are looking at something north of $2K. The Lyman/Pedersoli GPS is not the same as a custom rifle, but it is a little closer, and that is reflected in the cost. It looks like a fair price to me, considering what you get. I've considered getting one, but the deal breaker for me is the length of pull. At 14", its just a little more than is comfortable, and if I pay that much for a rifle, I want it to fit.
After all of this, if anyone still wants a Lyman/Investarms GPR, they are not hard to find on the used gun market. And, if anybody wants a new one, it appears that Investarms may still have them in production, rebranded with a new name: The InvestArm Gemmer Hawken
Best regards,
Notchy Bob
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Here is a review of the 50 caliber Lyman Signature Plains Rifle that Mike Nesbitt published last fall. Lyman’s Great Plains Signature Series Now from Pedersoli - TheGunMag - The Official Gun Magazine of the Second Amendment Foundation
Thank you.
I did make a mistake in my previous post. Mr. Nesbitt's review for Muzzleloader magazine was in fact for for the .50 caliber version of the Great Plains Signature rifle, and not the .54 as stated in my post, and it was too late to edit when I caught it. I apologize for the error. The review on TheGunMag website is a slightly condensed version of the review in the magazine, but I think it hits all of the high points.
Notchy Bob
Hear Hear Buzz
Snydly
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Thank you.
Black Jaque Janaviac
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Thank you for that! I thought I lost my mind. This is very curious, because SDSmlf claims that the table was there for quite some time. So maybe they removed it for some unknown reason and I just happened to look at a bad time?
Not sure what exactly happened, but when I saw your original post yesterday I chuckled to myself a bit because I had recently (maybe a couple of weeks ago or so) had seen the information on the Lyman website your were seeking, or so I thought. My initial post said the info was there. After few more posts where it seemed obvious that no one was going to look at the Lyman website, I simply posted a screenshot of what I had previously seen. For some reason, some had initially missed the info on the Lyman website, or possibly it wasn’t there when they looked. Doesn’t matter. Personally, I’ve done similar, not seeing the forest because of the trees. Appears we now all have the information on the gun specs as published by Lyman that were originally asked for. Looks like a win all around. Doesn’t matter why, at least in my opinion.
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Lyman has been making parts for firearms a very long time in the US but I don't know if they ever made this rifle in the states?
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Wow, Notchy! You posted a great informational page here! I didn't know about the Gemmer Hawken, etc. You've done a fine service to those looking for some info about these rifles. Thanks!
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