questions about hawkens percussion.

[Oregononeshot]

Hello, I currently shoot a traditions modern break open gun, but am going to switch to a hawkens before next season. My reason for switching is mainly accuracy. Oregon requires a solid lead or copper bullet with no sabots, or plastic on the bullet. My current rifle has a 1/28 rifled barrel. That rifling isn't designed to shoot the bullets were limited to. I've struggled with accuracy issues for years that I'm confident aren't my causing. After missing the biggest buck of my life last weekend, I'm making the switch to traditional.

Right now I'm leaning towards the traditions hawken woodsman. I've read lots of reviews on it and it seems like a good gun. I'm impressed with the accuracy of them, given the time to find a load they like. Anyone shoot this particular gun? One thing I require is that the gun be able to accept a musket nipple. I have read that you can switch them out, does anyone know for sure if this is possible? Another concern is being able to accept a sling. Has anyone replaced one of the ramrod holders with the ones that have a sling stud? I've got more questions I just can't think of them at the moment lol. I look forward to your guys help with future questions, thanks!

 

[Pete44ru]

Welcome to the forum, Robert !

I've accurately shot plain lead (lubed) conicals (T/C MaxiHunter's) from a 50cal with a 1:28 twist marked on the barrel bottom.

The RR ferrules with a sling QD eye should be a fairly easy switchout (mine were, but were advertised specifically for my rifle - so YMMV).

Several aftermarket companies ( & T/C ) sell musket conversion nipples - just make sure the conversion nipple chosen has threads that match the rifle's threaded nipple seat.

 

[md2020]

Why could you not get your 1/28 to shoot a lead conical or minie..or a patched round ball for that matter

 

[necchi]

One thing I require is that the gun be able to accept a musket nipple.

There is nothing to be gained using a "musket" cap on a rifle.
A properly cleaned and dry fire channel can and does easily ignite the main charge.
Musket caps are not "hotter", they have more volume,, but they also have more crud and fouling debris.

Trad rifles are simple enough and very satisfying once mastered, but there is a learning curve.

 

[Rat Trapper]

A good cap gun does not need musket caps, save your money. MY TC Hawken will even fire Triple Seven with standard caps.

 

[Grenadier1758]

One thing I require is that the gun be able to accept a musket nipple.

There is nothing to be gained using a "musket" cap on a rifle.
A properly cleaned and dry fire channel can and does easily ignite the main charge.
Musket caps are not "hotter", they have more volume,, but they also have more crud and fouling debris.

Trad rifles are simple enough and very satisfying once mastered, but there is a learning curve.

The above and the likelihood that the musket cap will be too large for the recess in the hammer.

 

[Billnpatti]

You didn't mention the caliber of the rifle that you are getting but, since .50 caliber is most common, that is likely the caliber of your new rifle. I have found that about 80 to 85 grains of 3f black powder will give very good accuracy. However, you will need to check this out with your rifle. You may want to use a conical bullet such as a Buffalo bullet or a T/C Maxi Ball but a patched round ball is plenty potent for deer. You didn't say why you want to use musket caps. For the gun that you are getting, you don't need them and they are more expensive than #11 caps. If it is a matter of you having a large supply of musket caps that you want to use up, you can buy a musket cap nipple from such places as Track of The Wolf. Determine the thread size on the nipple of your rifle and then order a musket cap nipple having that size threads. There is the possibility that the head of the hammer on your new rifle will not fit a musket cap. Check this out before spending money on a musket cap nipple that you can't use. If the reason for wanting musket caps is because they are large and easier to handle, just get one of these and solve that little problem https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/3/1/CAPPER-P

Welcome to the wonderful world of traditional muzzleloading. :hatsoff: It's the only way to go. :thumbsup:

 

[tenngun]

If you want to change your rifle I would recommend the Great Plains Rifle. The styling is traditional on the out side. If you go with a .54 it will do deer elk or moose just fine in a patched round ball and give you accuracy to as well as you can see. Going to ”˜magnum’ loads won’t pay off down range.
Musket caps were not made to be better fireing, but to be easier to handle on a battle line. You make sure your gun is clean, dry and the vent is clear. In damp weather you have to take precautions that do not change with a military cap.
Should you want to shoot a conical load I do understand that deer killed by a conical are more dead then deer killed with a round ball :shocked2:

 

[Zonie]

None of the Hawkens style rifles come with a musket cap nipple installed.

The typical musket size nipple is made for the military weapons used during the Civil War and they have very large threads. Usually something like a 5/16-24.

While this thread is too large for any of the regular rifles, musket size nipples are available with the smaller size threads typically used on percussion rifles.
Some examples of these are shown in this Track of the Wolf catalog link:
https://www.trackofthewolf.com/List/Item.aspx/807/2

If you do buy one of these you must know the thread size of the nipple in your rifle as they come in several different sizes.

As was mentioned above, the hammer on a percussion rifle is made for use with a normal #11 size cap.

That means the hollowed out nose of the hammer may be too small to fit over a musket nipple.

All in all, I strongly suggest you stick to the normal size caps. They are powerful enough to do the job, they cost less and they are widely available.

As for a "Hawken" style rifle, there are a lot of companies that made something they called a Hawken.
Most of them resemble a hawken only because they are half stock rifles.
The least expensive rifle that actually looks almost like a true Hawken is the Great Plains Rifle and like the true Hawken, it is pretty heavy.

Whatever you get, I know you will enjoy it.

 

[Oregononeshot]

Thanks guys I'll try to answer all the questions. First off I have shot a couple of different conical lead and found the maxi-balls in 370 grain to be the most "accurate". I am using 100 grains of powder. I have tried lower grains and found 100 the "best". On several different occasions I have got the gun shooting 8-10" groups at 50-100 yards, then come back on a different date and been a foot low at 50 yards. Shooting off a bench every time. I clean the barrel the same every time to try to be consistent. I am confident my form is pretty consistent every time. I have spoke with traditions about the accuracy issue and they have said that barrel is not designed for those bullets and I won't get consistent accuracy. I tamp the bullet tight every time so the bullet is set the same every shot. Several friends have the same gun and have similar accuracy issues.

I wanted a musket cap because I have about 300 in my box, and because I was under the assumption they have hotter spark. It was mentioned that they aren't hotter, just more volume of spark. I would rather take more spark than less, wouldn't you? I never thought about the hammer not fitting over the musket nipple. I was going to get a 50 caliber gun. I plan to hunt elk in the future with it.

 

[charlie b]

I have a Lyman Great Plains Hunter which is 1/32 twist and shallow rifling.

It shoots bullets just fine....but

It does best with a veggie wad and then felt wad then the bullet. I use the Hornady Great Plains bullet but I size them to .501 for a slip fit down the bore.

If I use the bullets as bought they are made to engage the rifling when ramming. I had bad luck doing that so that's why I size them first.

I guess the musket nipple would not hurt, as long as the flash hole is just as small as the regular nipples. If it is too large it will let too much gas escape.

Not sure why your rifle shoots different on different days. When figuring out a hunting load I used to shoot at the same target on several different days. First shot went to that target. That made sure it was a cold barrel freshly cleaned. An alternative is to clean the barrel after each shot. Not just swab, but, clean it as you would before a hunt.

 

[necchi]

I wanted a musket cap because I have about 300 in my box, and because I was under the assumption they have hotter spark. It was mentioned that they aren't hotter, just more volume of spark. I would rather take more spark than less, wouldn't you?

Most of us are making the statement about musket caps because we also just had to try the oh so much better musket caps during our own discovery period.

I have 2 full tins of musket caps that are about 20yrs old now, I haven't had a use for them since I found out there is no gain and got tired of cleaning the extra mess from the nipple, breech and lock.
Do what you want, I'd just suggest that you not base your choices solely on the idea that musket caps are better because they're bigger.
What ever man, do what ya want.

You know how "In-line" fire channels work right?
Like a straight line,,
Trad rifles aren't like that.

 

[Oregononeshot]

Thanks for the help guys. I'll definitely give the #11 caps a honest try before trying musket caps

 

[rafterob]

I have a Traditions Hawken Woodsman. Good solid and accurate rifle. Best loads are between 65-90 grains no need to go any higher. I have found the best maxi style bullet for this rifle to be a two-banded TC type maxi-hunter? I think that's what its called. It loads much easier than a 3 band and is very accurate. I like the adjustable sight, you just need to practice so you know what adjustments are made. I shoot flat on at 25 and 50 yards and then have about a 6" drop at 100 using a 70 grain charge with roundball, so I only adjust the sight for 100.

 

[ghostdncr]

I have a Great Plains Rifle and have it because it was the closest (reasonably priced) commercial offering that compared to a genuine Hawken at the time. It's a big, heavy gun but they are generally well sorted and will easily outshoot the shooter behind them once properly loaded. I'm offering this testimonial only in case you're adamant about switching rifles.

It's been my experience that nearly any BP rifle has a voodoo load. That magic combination of components mixed in specific amounts that will allow you to far exceed the expectations you may have for said rifle. It often takes a lot of work and frustration to finally reveal a particular rifle's load, but it's probably there for the finding.

 

[Rifleman1776]

I wanted a musket cap because I have about 300 in my box

Keep them there. We all have tons of 'stuff' on the shelf or in our range boxes we never use. Some day you will meet a guy with a repro CW musket who can't shoot because he doesn't have the musket caps. You can give him a tin of yours. That will make both of you feel good. :grin:

 

[robinsroost]

Keep them there. We all have tons of 'stuff' on the shelf or in our range boxes we never use. Some day you will meet a guy with a repro CW musket who can't shoot because he doesn't have the musket caps. You can give him a tin of yours. That will make both of you feel good. :grin:

Or, take them to a swap meet or rendezvous and trade them for something you can use......robin :hmm:

 

[Kansas Jake]

Over the last couple of years especially I've been amazed how doing a good turn for someone else has brought unexpected good turns coming my way. Pass it on or as the movie from about 20+ said, pay it forward.

 

[Scota4570]

https://www.trackofthewolf.com/List/Item.aspx/159/1/RLP-MS

A friend had a Lyman GPR that did not fire reliably. I opened up the flash channel between the nipple and the chamber in the plug. I added a musket nipple. He describes it as, "a whole new rifle". Now that powder sits right under a musket nipple, it is hard to make it not fire.

He probably stored it muzzle up. The channel was small. I do think the musket cap nipple did the most good though.

I would only use musket caps on a hunting rifle. I have observed them to be more reliable than #11s. Opinions differ.

 

[azmntman]

I have a traditions hawkins like yer thinking about. Out the box with whatever load you start with I would bet you (I am sure I) could cut that group in half first time. They are straight shooters. Musket caps not easy to find and not needed. Conicals not needed for deer, elk maybe in a .50 (a .54 drops em with PRB).

Good luck