kansas_volunteer
45 Cal.
A knife making book I have says buzz saw blades such as you have are generally L6, a very tough steel that makes very good knives.
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Questions for the knife makers.
- Thread starter Bagman
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I really think most people who go about building knives with unknown steels would be truly shocked at how inexpensive good tool steel (such as 1075) can be. When you consider it is clean, consistent dimensions, and generally in a soft annealed condition it is difficult to justify using unknown alloys. Making a good knife is difficult enough without throwing unknown elements into the equation such as steel types.
Oh, I agree. But I think that part of blacksmithing in the 18th and 19th centuries was learning how to work with unknown steels. So, while the resultant knife might not be optimal, the lessons in the process can still be valuable.
Blacksmiths and gunsmiths in 18th and 19th centuries did not have the variety of specialized steels to contend with that we do today and their jobs, if using salvaged materials were much less complicated. A beginner really should restrict their work to very basic carbon steels such as 1075 that are easy to heat treat without the need for sophisticated equipment.
Black Hand
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I'm with you.Bagman said:
I've learned more from what didn't work than from what did....
It really depends on what steel that said saw blade is made from and how good a knife you intend to turn out. If it is a simple carbon steel like 1075 good heat treatment can be done with a simple torch as a heat source, other steels that are more complex require longer soak times at precise temperatures and you really should have a furnace for those.
In the end it is your choice, but as I said tool steel is cheap enough to make salvage materials generally a poor bargain in my opinion.
In the end it is your choice, but as I said tool steel is cheap enough to make salvage materials generally a poor bargain in my opinion.
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+1. :thumbsup:
The best knife I've made was from a air quenched piece of slasher blade from a paper mill. I could not obtain that material any other way. One of those 6 foot tall blades can give you a lot of material for years to come.
So this buzz blade is worth experimenting with. Might go good...maybe not so much. But either way I'll learn something. And have tried something new.
Buying a piece of 1075 is the safe way to go. But even that can get screwed up if your not on top of it.
Up here in Maine you can buy a 3 foot saw blade for 5 to 10 bucks. Cheap to learn on...readily available. I'm picking up 3 more for 18 bucks on Sunday. :grin:
So this buzz blade is worth experimenting with. Might go good...maybe not so much. But either way I'll learn something. And have tried something new.
Buying a piece of 1075 is the safe way to go. But even that can get screwed up if your not on top of it.
Up here in Maine you can buy a 3 foot saw blade for 5 to 10 bucks. Cheap to learn on...readily available. I'm picking up 3 more for 18 bucks on Sunday. :grin:
Just out of curiosity what method are you using to anneal those saw blades? From what little I know about L6 it is an oil hardening steel, but also a boarderline air hardening one as well.
In any event it is not a steel that in my opinion would be a good one for a beginner, or at least one without a good furnace capable of giving good temperature controlls. Most knives that I know that are made from this are camp knives, or choppers. 5160 is cheap, easy to heat treat using simple methods and would likely produce a superior knife to L6 if one only has simple heat treating equipment.
I think for those on the board it is important to understand that just because certain high end tool steels can be purchased/obtained by salvage, it does not mean that everyone can turn them into high performance blades using simple heat treatment methods. Many of these steels, such as L6 are capable of making excellent knives, but to unlock the capabilities of the steel requires knowledge and specialized equipment that most beginners do not possess. Just because you can make it work with simple methods does not mean you have created a superior blade, most likely it is a mediocre one and likely one that would be inferior to something produced with a more basic, yet easier to heat treat steel. Scrounging can be fun, but I reserve it for non critical parts. When I put my name on a knife I want it to be the best that I can make and without unknowns.
In any event it is not a steel that in my opinion would be a good one for a beginner, or at least one without a good furnace capable of giving good temperature controlls. Most knives that I know that are made from this are camp knives, or choppers. 5160 is cheap, easy to heat treat using simple methods and would likely produce a superior knife to L6 if one only has simple heat treating equipment.
I think for those on the board it is important to understand that just because certain high end tool steels can be purchased/obtained by salvage, it does not mean that everyone can turn them into high performance blades using simple heat treatment methods. Many of these steels, such as L6 are capable of making excellent knives, but to unlock the capabilities of the steel requires knowledge and specialized equipment that most beginners do not possess. Just because you can make it work with simple methods does not mean you have created a superior blade, most likely it is a mediocre one and likely one that would be inferior to something produced with a more basic, yet easier to heat treat steel. Scrounging can be fun, but I reserve it for non critical parts. When I put my name on a knife I want it to be the best that I can make and without unknowns.
Alexander, Tim Lively has a wonderful video on making a camp knife out of 5160 (old Ford truck leaf spring) using a charcoal forge. "Knifemaking Unplugged."
Hope it hardens and tempers up nicely for you. Just never know.
You lucked out. If you were able to anneal it that well I bet it will harden and temper just fine. You'll probably get a lot of good knives out of that buzz saw blade.
kansas_volunteer
45 Cal.
How did you anneal it? I'm always interested in technique. I like to heat my stock until it goes nonmagnetic then wrap it in fiberglass insulation or pack it in vermiculite, so it cools very slowly. I orient the steel to magnetic north. That way as the stock returns to a magnetic state the molecules are aligned with the planet. The last part is just a bunch of mumbo jumbo that in no way adds anything to the final result.
Pretty much the same method you used. I have a bucket of hardwood ash and use that instead of vermiculite. Going to skip the whole North/South bit. Lol!
I am not going to normalize the blade and plan on bringing the entire blade up to temp before oil quenching.
I am not going to normalize the blade and plan on bringing the entire blade up to temp before oil quenching.
Rich Pierce said:
Rich...
You are absolutely right. I lucked out. It hardened. I put a edge to it and used a baton to split some wood. I then used the baton to chop through some branches. The edge held with no rolls or chips. It was still shaving sharp.
Stopped by Roy Strohs' shop and he sawed out some curly maple for the scales. Going to get them pinned together this afternoon.
Black Hand
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Once you get the pin holes drilled in the handle slabs, make certain you take the front end of the grip slabs to a smooth-finished state before gluing. Otherwise you will scratch your blade when trying to finish you handle.
Also remember to put circumferential grooves in your pins so you epoxy has purchase. The grooves are easily done by rotating the pins on a rough belt-sander belt (while it is running).
5-minute epoxy does the job. Don't overheat the tang (handle) while profiling as the epoxy may release. Clean the inside of the handle slabs, pins and tang with Acetone to remove any oils before gluing. Chamfer the ends of the pins before driving them gently through the holes to avoid chip-out on the far handle slab.
Also remember to put circumferential grooves in your pins so you epoxy has purchase. The grooves are easily done by rotating the pins on a rough belt-sander belt (while it is running).
5-minute epoxy does the job. Don't overheat the tang (handle) while profiling as the epoxy may release. Clean the inside of the handle slabs, pins and tang with Acetone to remove any oils before gluing. Chamfer the ends of the pins before driving them gently through the holes to avoid chip-out on the far handle slab.
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