Questions

[nmpyle]

On to the questions, from a total nubie.

1. From all my internet searching I believe the Browning MT Rifle is designed only for patch and ball use due to the slow rate of twist. Knowing that what can I expect for maximum range I can attempt a shot, and what is the biggest animal that I can responsibly hunt? Also what range should I consider zeroing at?

2. Is using wasp nest material advised?

3. I currently use 90g Hodgdon triple 7 FFFG. 490" ball, .018" patch, Mink Oil tallow: Any reason to change that?

4. Finally any advice or lessons learned. I have read several great books on ML including Lymans 2nd edition "Black powder handbook and loading manual" but nothing beats first hand knowledge. for example, I have heard when carrying this rifle through the woods to carry it with the hammer down on the primer (which makes no sense to me, why not keep it at half cocked?)

Thank you all for your help and time.

-ps as soon as I can figure out how to upload an image i will!

 

[Stumpkiller]

Welcome. I like to keep my .50 cal under 100 yards on our local 200 lb whitetail, but I load it pretty moderately with 85 gr FFg so it's no barn burner. I'm as limited anymore by my eyesight as the ball's range. ;-) Mine is 1-1/2" high at 50 yards and on at 85 yards.

I go with half-cock. IMHO hammer down on a cap is asking for problems if the rife is dropped.

Wasp nest will make a wad, but not a patch.

 

[oletymepreacher]

Thank you for your service. In answer to your questions, and I'm sure others may answer differently:


1) Range of weapon: way out there, but effective range for hunting, 75-100 yards. A .50 can kill just about anything, but there in Alaska I'd have backup with a bigger thumper if you go for grizzlies. I zero my muzzleloader rifles an inch high at 75 yards.

2) Wasp nest is good if you can get it and keep it dry, but not necessary.

3) My hunting load is 100 grains of GOEX 3F, in both .50 and .54 for the added power (not much), but best accuracy in my rifles is 75-80 grains, depending on the rifle. The substitute powder you are using can deteriorate over time, at least that is what I have found.

4) Muzzleloading hunting's real challenge is getting to know your game well enough to get a close shot. The furthest I have killed deer or elk with any firearm has been 75 yards, the closest elk was maybe 15 feet. Pronghorn is a different story. When getting into the field, you won't need to hump as much weight as you may have to do in the middle east. I carry a small horn with enough powder for 6 shots, caps or spare flints, short starter, a few tools to do field maintenance on rifle if needed, a cow's knee if rain or snow is on the menu, six balls and patches in a ball board, all this in a small bag. A knife, fixed blade, and a bag ax. Carry small first aid kit for sprain, splint, bandages for knife cuts, lunch, water and a couple of oranges for quick lift, emergency bivouac kit, and that's it for me. But then on opening day I am loaded down like a pack horse. If using a horse, there are more amenities packed on him.

Good luck hunting with your new rifle. Once the muzzleloading bug bites, it is terminal.

 

[jethro224]

Hi POE, Glad to meet you.
Sounds like you're off to a good start.

1. I believe the Browning Mt Rifle was available in both slow twist for roundball and fast twist for conical shooting. Are you sure which twist you have?
I have never hunted anything larger than deer so that is all my opinion is based on, the patched round ball is capable of taking a deer as far out there as you can consistently place the ball in the heart/lungs. Seems to be about 100 yards average with open sights.
Most zero at 75-100 yards.

2. Some use wasp nest for a over-powder wad. You can also use felt, leather, cornmeal,....
If you get burnt patches try a wad or filler.

3. That's a potent load for hunting. Should be plenty powerful. You might want to reduce it for target shooting. Have you tested different loads to find the one or two that the rifle prefers?

4. Carry the rifle on half-cock. That is the closest thing to a "safety" on your rifle.

 

[William O.]

Welcome Poe!

On to the questions, from a total nubie.
1. From all my internet searching I believe the Browning MT Rifle is designed only for patch and ball use due to the slow rate of twist.
Anything from 1:70 up to 1:48 is usually good for RB shooting, but in some rifles the 1:48 allows the use of both that and lead conicals.
Knowing that what can I expect for maximum range I can attempt a shot, and what is the biggest animal that I can responsibly hunt? You 50 cal is good for a lot of game, but shot placement is the key to it all. Personally I would prefer .54 and up for elk or moose, and at least a .58 on your native bruin, but if you can consistantly place a .50 sized RB in the vitals time after time then it's up to you to decide if it's ethical or not.
Also what range should I consider zeroing at?
I would start with between 40 & 50 yards for now, with 50 grains powder. Shoot three times, wiping between shots and aiming at the same spot, keeping notes on your load and conditions at the range, like temp, humidity, etc. Then increase your load by 5 grains and repeat. Your groups should start to tighten up, then get a little larger as the charge increases, then you'll have found your "target load". The same should be true as you go up from there until you find your "hunting load", but don't go past max. At this time you are not adjusting or filing the sights, just noting how tight your groups are and at what powder amount. As an example, my .54 gets good groups at 80 and 105 grains, thus the first is my target load and the latter is my hunting load, but even at 80 grains the RB will go through most whitetails without stopping, you'll just have to decide which is right at what time. Once you get this done then you can sight in at 100 yards using the same process and start adjusting your sights or changing other variables like patch thickness, lube or even ball diameter.

2. Is using wasp nest material advised?
For what? You've already got a good patch material (I assume), leave the wasp nest for shotgunners.

3. I currently use 90g Hodgdon triple 7 FFFG. 490" ball, .018" patch, Mink Oil tallow: Any reason to change that?
If you are getting good accuracy then no, but keep in mind that T-7 has more energy than traditional black powder, and you need to reduce the loads by 15%, so your current load is equal to 103.5 grains of Goex. Don't exceeed the maximum load for your rifle. You will also probably need to use #11 magnum caps to ignite T-7 consistantly as well, as it has a higher ignition temp. If this becomes a problem then buy some real black.

4. Finally any advice or lessons learned. I have read several great books on ML including Lymans 2nd edition "Black powder handbook and loading manual" but nothing beats first hand knowledge. for example, I have heard when carrying this rifle through the woods to carry it with the hammer down on the primer (which makes no sense to me, why not keep it at half cocked?)
Personally I would carry it w/out cap until I got to my blind, or capped but on half-cock if still hunting or stalking.

Thank you all for your help and time.

-ps as soon as I can figure out how to upload an image i will!
[/quote]
Looking forward to that.

 

[oldude]

Hello Poe,I was stationed at Ft. Wainwright for five yrs.and hunted smokeless for four of those five. Moose and carribou don't normaly spook like most deer will plus most of the time you spot and stalk them so you really don't need a cap on until the animal is in range (100 yrds or less).Black bear was hunted over bait,natural(gut pile,garbage,berries) or hunter supplied, again no need to cap up until ready to shoot.Griz..... well thats a hole nother story,don't know if I would be man enough to use a .50 on them. :shocked2: Bent

 

[paulvallandigham]

Wasp or Hornet's nest makes a great "Firewall" to protect cloth patches from burning. YOU NEED TO INSPECT the spent patches fired from your gun while working up loads for it. They tell you everything about what is going on inside the barrel.

T7 burns a lot hotter than does BP, so your load might be a concern for burning or tearing patches in a .50. Check the spent patches.

You can use OP wads, or any kind of filler, like corn meal, to use as a fire wall, and a better gas sealer. Some of those Brownings have very deep grooves, and its difficult to find the correct thickness of patch to get down into the corners of those grooves, and block off escaping gases. A filler, or "firewall", does a much better job of sealing gases for you, and takes that particular Job away from the patch you wrap around the ball. Without that 'job", a patch only has to center the ball in the bore, grease the barrel to soften the BP residue, and impart the spin of the rifling to the ball.

I recommend using BP rather than T7. You need to reduce T7 loads substantially to get down to the more reasonable working velocities of BP in the 70-100 grain range. You need to test your rifle using both 3Fg and 2Fg BP to see what it prefers. Stick with Standard #11 caps. The "Magnum" caps are intended to ignite the substitute powders in some of the zip guns we don't discuss here. The Magnum primers are simply not needed to ignite BP.

If you can find a spent .30 carbine casing lying around, I think you will find that it fits over the base of your nipple. You can file, cut, or trim the casing so that it can cover the nipple When its got a percussion cap in place, and still give you clearance to lower the hammer. Then, you can lower the hammer down onto the casing head, for a " Safety" for walking with the gun. Tie a string to the groove of the casing, and the other end around the front of your Trigger guard. To use, simply cock the hammer back to Full Cock, pull the casing off the nipple, and let it drop. You are ready to fire.

The Half Cock notch was traditionally used as a " Safety", But, to use it as such, you need to keep a finger, thumb, or part of your hand up against the backside of the hammer to keep it from moving off, and out of the half cock notch, should you brush the spur of the hammer against something solid.

Since I like to cover the lock, and trigger, of my gun when carrying it on a walk through woods, using my hands, This has never been a problem for me. But, I have large hands, and I have no doubt that is an advantage for me in this matter. People with smaller hands might do better making this "safety" I describe. :thumbsup:

 

[BrownBear]

3. I currently use 90g Hodgdon triple 7 FFFG. 490" ball, .018" patch, Mink Oil tallow: Any reason to change that?

You're getting good answers, so I'll only hit one point, since your numbers line up with my direct experience.

That's pretty hot and should be a game stompin fool if it's accurate. I'm using that patch/ball combo in 50 cal, though 90 grains of Goex 3f or same of Pyrodex P. Since Triple 7 is hotter and Hodgdon recommends reducing if around 15% for comparable black powder equivalents, I'm betting your ball is screaming.

Last year I whacked a buck broadside through the lungs with my load at about 35 yards. It was the only animal I've ever seen "knocked off it's feet" with a lung shot and RB. The sucker flat collapsed, bounce back up and took about three steps and collapsed again for good. I was downright impressed! No way to predict if your much hotter load will collapse a deer on the shot, but I bet it dies real quick.

That should be a dandy caribou load, but you'll get mixed opinions about moose. I know guys that do so regularly with 50 cal RB, but they're great hunters and get close, then place their ball carefully. Moose die easy with a good shot, but they can travel a long ways in spite. With a bad shot, the odds go waaay up of them finding a river, pond or bog to die in. And that's in their nature.

 

[hoochiepapa]

My experiences mirror brown bears, but I would like to add one thing. The toughness of the animals. I have seen deer and elk run several hundred yards with a hole in their heart, or their lungs turned to mush.
In my book, with a ml, bigger is better. I use a .54 I built with 110 grs holy black, and a round ball.
Good hunting, and welcome home.

 

[Britsmoothy]

If I may add, and I likes the shell case safty idea :thumbsup: If you are getting burnt patches hence the wasp nest, if you use a short starter short start a patch first and then the patched ball.

Brits.