Ram rod wont go all the in....im stumped!

[Eric Krewson]

Other things; on my first build I got the forward lock bolt hole slightly in the ramrod channel and did this to my front lock bolt. I do have to remember to pull the ramrod out before I pull the lock or the lock bolt won't come out.

In a pre-carve from the "p" place I couldn't get my ramrod to go in past the entry pipe, I didn't notice the dog leg in the ramrod groove until I had everything together. The bend in the ramrod channel made the ramrod try to go in at an angle instead of straight.

I peened a bur on the end of one of my ramrod drills to make a ramrod hole scraper, it worked surprisingly well and would remove wood faster than I expected. I would black my ramrod blank and run it in the hole and see where the black scraped off, Next, I would use my scraper padded up with leather to put pressure on the side that needed scraping and scrape that exact spot. I am pretty sure my scraper is on a 5/16 ramrod drill so it had plenty of room to move in a 3/8" hole

Padded and cutting.

Done, the ramrod slides in easily now.

 

[Hatman/2nd line]

The hole in the stock is tapered. The rod needs to be tapered to match. IT is normal and expected. IT is part of the build and covered in the instructions.

Jim Kibler has answered this question many times. He prefers that build questions be handled by Kibler Long rifles, not internet forums.

I can't imagine how the hole would be tapered?

 

[Boatncamp]

My first recommendation would be to insert your ramrod as far as it will go and mark it somewhere. Then remove it and lay it next to the rifle with the mark aligned to the point where you made it. You can then see where it has stopped on the outside of the gun and that will give you a reference point as to where to start looking. You said a smaller rod goes all the way in, so is it the bolt? you will tell if that is where it falls on the outside, or that it needs to taper more. Just my thoughts if you haven't done this already.

 

[Codger Craig Wilcox]

Putting finishing touches on my Kibler colonial. I may have goofed because I completed rifle, instead of assembling and fitting ram rod. The rod has been thoroughly sanded and fits through thimbles and entry pipe, but seems to be hitting something about 5 1/2" before it should be home.
I've marked rod where it hits bottom of barrel...used a smaller rod to guage depth it should go, but for the lfe of me, I just can not figure it out!!
I certainly hope I don't have to disassemble rifle again! It came out quite well....all tight and well fit....
Thanks for any thoughts guys...

Lee, I had the same problem with my Woodsrunner!
I used my borescope down the RR hole, and found a solid wood base right at the 5.5" to go position.
Luckily, I have a 48" RR hole drill bit, 3/8" dia.
So I just set up the stock in my vise, and, 1/2" at a time, drilled out that final 5.5", and got a perfect fit.
I do not know what problem Jim Kibler ran into in the manufacturing process to cause this small "defect", but things do happen in that complex evolution between a stock blank and a finished product.
Glad - and sad - to find I wasn't the only one this happened to.
BTW, if you have a suitable drill bit, no need to disassemble - just, slowly - bore out that RR hole. I did not even remove the thimbles.

 

[FlinterNick]

I can't imagine how the hole would be tapered?

Its possible Jim has a special lathe system for that, but I’ve never seen a tapered drill rod that long only short ones.

A lot of gun builders like to mill out the barrel channel so the rod channel is exposed and you can see the rod and service the area, clean it etc. The rifle shoppe does a lot of their stocks that way too.

 

[Joemolf]

Putting finishing touches on my Kibler colonial. I may have goofed because I completed rifle, instead of assembling and fitting ram rod. The rod has been thoroughly sanded and fits through thimbles and entry pipe, but seems to be hitting something about 5 1/2" before it should be home.
I've marked rod where it hits bottom of barrel...used a smaller rod to guage depth it should go, but for the lfe of me, I just can not figure it out!!
I certainly hope I don't have to disassemble rifle again! It came out quite well....all tight and well fit....
Thanks for any thoughts guys...

Sounds like it’s hitting the forward lock bolt? Tighten it up mark the horizontal on the cap then file a flat spot in the bolt so the ramrod clears. This may have already been said i don’t read entire threads anymore

 

[DCAN]

I think I goofed. I assembled entire rifle....then I fit ram rod end on,pinned,countersunk, peened pin tip and sanded well. I should have it it before final assembly.
I'm going to remove local, and lock side plate, and make double sure lock bolts are where they belong
I remember Jim making a point of this...
Otherwise, ramrod is straight, nicely sanded and fits thru thimbles and entry pipe


Goes into stock about 5 1/2" and just stops....as it seems to be hitting something. Weird!

I fought the same problem just yesterday. My fix was to modify a rat tail file and clean up the hole in the stock just a little bit. Most of the offending wood was right at the entrance, Then, with the tip mounted on the ramrod, sand and scrape until it fit. After finishing the ramrod it fits a little tighter than planned, but it's workable.
EDIT: After rereading this I see I left out some important info. The wood I removed was heavily saturated with finish. The cause of the constriction was my fault, not a problem with the stock.

 

[LeeC.]

Well, I just ran a bore scope down barrel, and down ram rod hole.
I marked ram rod at muzzle, with tip properly attached
I marked ram rod where it bottoms out in ram rod hole, and marked it at entry pipe, 5 1/2" difference between both marks on ram rod.

Ran bore scope down ram rod hole, marked it on cable and compared Mark on ram rod... seems it needs to go deeper... 5 1/2" difference again

Seems ram rod hole is not drilled deep enough. The scope shows nothing impeding, no screws, barrel lugs or thimble lugs or anything else.

Guess I gotta make a call to Jim tomorrow....

 

[Kevin Houlihan]

Well, I just ran a bore scope down barrel, and down ram rod hole.
I marked ram rod at muzzle, with tip properly attached
I marked ram rod where it bottoms out in ram rod hole, and marked it at entry pipe, 5 1/2" difference between both marks on ram rod.

Ran bore scope down ram rod hole, marked it on cable and compared Mark on ram rod... seems it needs to go deeper... 5 1/2" difference again

Seems ram rod hole is not drilled deep enough. The scope shows nothing impeding, no screws, barrel lugs or thimble lugs or anything else.

Guess I gotta make a call to Jim tomorrow....

Can you push a wire or coat hanger or anything to see where the RR hole ends? I had to sand my ramrod quite a bit to get it to bottom in the hole. Check before you call Jim.

 

[James Kibler]

Yeah, check the depth with a coat hanger or something similar. When we drill holes if it doesn't look as though it is going in the right place, we stop and then re-work the holes later. The hole should go pretty close to the barrel breech. Once in a while one of these stocks get through. One of those situations where you get 2000 things right with a kit and something slips by. We need to make sure this is checked better before shipping Sorry for the trouble. Let me know what you find. Rest assured we'll get you fixed up.

Jim

 

[Codger Craig Wilcox]

Yeah, check the depth with a coat hanger or something similar. When we drill holes if it doesn't look as though it is going in the right place, we stop and then re-work the holes later. The hole should go pretty close to the barrel breech. Once in a while one of these stocks get through. One of those situations where you get 2000 things right with a kit and something slips by. We need to make sure this is checked better before shipping Sorry for the trouble. Let me know what you find. Rest assured we'll get you fixed up.

Jim

Jim, as mentioned above,I had this problem on my Woodsrunner. I just used my RR drill and corrected it to the right depth.

 

[James Kibler]

Trying to drill it yourself is a very dangerous prospect. Usually if we have stopped drilling it's for a reason and we have to make adjustments for the hole to go as we want. I'm glad it worked out for you though.

Just in general, if it's just a tight fit with the rod, don't try to do anything to the hole. Just sand the rod down. This is standard procedure. We've had some try to drill out the stock and have ruined their stock in the process. Just taper the rod, by sanding, scraping or filing the rod down. Originals pretty much all had tapered rods.

 

[The Crisco Kid]

One of the benefits to a full diameter ramrod hole is that I can permanently attach a threaded ramrod end to it. With that, I can screw in a patch jag which gives a solid grip on the rod when I use it for wiping the bore in the field or on a trail walk when I don't have a range rod. Making a skinny tapered rod to fit into a tapered hole just doesn't make any sense to me when there is a more practical and useful way to do it. But then, that's just my take on things.

 

[Buzzkill]

I had a similar problem after servicing my Traditions 50 cal BP hand gun. I had over tightened the screw holding the for-stock in place. Easy to over tighten on my 7 mil mag too which caused the bolt action to jam up.

 

[James Kibler]

One of the benefits to a full diameter ramrod hole is that I can permanently attach a threaded ramrod end to it. With that, I can screw in a patch jag which gives a solid grip on the rod when I use it for wiping the bore in the field or on a trail walk when I don't have a range rod. Making a skinny tapered rod to fit into a tapered hole just doesn't make any sense to me when there is a more practical and useful way to do it. But then, that's just my take on things.

If you want to make them like the originals it's the only way. Do you think they were unable to use their ramrods when at times their life depended on it? Why we so often think we are smarter blows my mind.

As to holes, we drill them to .375" for our Woodsrunner and Colonial and .312" for our SMR. Holes are parallel-sided and not tapered.

As to routing a groove from the top, this is simply an inferior shortcut. It substantially weakens the stock. The reason it's done is that controlling where a ramrod hole ends up can be difficult.

 

[French Colonial]

If you want to make them like the originals it's the only way. Do you think they were unable to use their ramrods when at times their life depended on it? Why we so often think we are smarter blows my mind.

As to holes, we drill them to .375" for our Woodsrunner and Colonial and .312" for our SMR. Holes are parallel-sided and not tapered.

As to routing a groove from the top, this is simply an inferior shortcut. It substantially weakens the stock. The reason it's done is that controlling where a ramrod hole ends up can be difficult.

JIM!! don't you know they used delrin ramrods back then! (Just a little snark carried over from another thread).

 

[The Crisco Kid]

If you want to make them like the originals it's the only way. Do you think they were unable to use their ramrods when at times their life depended on it? Why we so often think we are smarter blows my mind.

Your point is valid for sure except that I don't think I'm any smarter than they were. I just make things a little easier on myself. I have one of your Southern Mountain rifles that I love but if I get a tight fitting load after a few rounds it's hard on my hand to ram it all the way home.

An afterthought: Jim, I hear rumors of your putting together a Hawken kit. Did the Hawkens have a tapered ramrod like the earlier flintlocks? My focus has always been on the Plains era guns and I had not heard of tapered ramrods or ramrod ends, until recently.

 

[FlinterNick]

If you want to make them like the originals it's the only way. Do you think they were unable to use their ramrods when at times their life depended on it? Why we so often think we are smarter blows my mind.

As to holes, we drill them to .375" for our Woodsrunner and Colonial and .312" for our SMR. Holes are parallel-sided and not tapered.

As to routing a groove from the top, this is simply an inferior shortcut. It substantially weakens the stock. The reason it's done is that controlling where a ramrod hole ends up can be difficult.

Jim does a Forstner bit do the job better than regular bit?

 

[oldwood]

Call a psychic........It was only a r/r , and drilled hole.

 

[Kevin Houlihan]

Your point is valid for sure except that I don't think I'm any smarter than they were. I just make things a little easier on myself. I have one of your Southern Mountain rifles that I love but if I get a tight fitting load after a few rounds it's hard on my hand to ram it all the way home.

If you use a patch wet with a liquid lube the bore is cleaned to some degree every time you load. I use a wet patch when loading and can easily load 20 shots using the ramrod that Jim includes with the SMR. I use Mr. Flintlock's Lube, but I'm sure there are other lubes that will work.
Kevin