Ramrod hole correction?

[Joemolf]

This is not the end of the world but I’ve run into a problem with a pre inlet Lancaster Issac Haines stock I purchased from TOTW. I’m learning the hard way to inspect things carefully and then put them away if I am not going to get to them. This stock I purchased in 2019 and just started it in April on my 65th birthday LOL! I consider myself to have decent skills and patience. So when I saw Bill Riby’s video on Rumble I got highly motivated. For my first attempt at this I thought I was doing okay. Someone on the forum made a comment that it’s easier to build from a block than a preinlet. I’m finding that may be true but for me hard. I like to take baby steps. Maybe a block build is in my future but not right now. Anyway for those familiar with pre inlet stocks a swamp barrel demands exactness. The lock location you can’t change and the barrel you can’t move aft or you increase the gaps between the barrel and stock due to the taper of the barrel. I had to move the barrel aft to get the touch hole in the correct location otherwise I would have had to notch the breech plug. I want a reliable rifle. Anyway after about 80 hours of work on this im finally up to the point of inletting the ramrod tubes. I cleaned up the ramrod channel with sandpaper. I’m looking at this and I can see that the wood on the right side appears thicker than the left. I was going to take the the stock down to half the diameter of the of the loading rod. But after squaring off the forend I could really see it was a misalignment of the loading rod hole. Good Grief! It’s off to the left by about 3/32 of inch. So this is a problem for me. I think it can be corrected but I am looking for advice on how to correct it. I’m thinking of plugging it with a piece of loading rod that I am going to try and predrill with a #40 drill bit offset by about the same 3/32. The channel is 11 inches long. I can get an aerospace drill bit 12 and 18 inches long. The concern is the bit walking like the 3/8 bit did. Then if successful epoxy the rod in and slowly open it up to 3/8. I think as long as I can get the first 4 or 5 inches straight after that it should be okay and won’t bind the ramrod when replacing it back in place. Track in my opinion has no customer loyalty. I purchased other and are still unwrapped. Of the three two this one and a higher grade one both have ramrod hole issues. The other is worse the drill came through the stock near the breach which leaves me in another mess. I called them and they told me basically that is just the way it is originals had same issues. Well I know drills can walk especially when rushed and not monitored. This is 21 century not the 18th. I would have liked them to say return the stock I haven’t unwrapped and well send you a new one. You would think they inspect what they buy from their vendors. Four hundred dollars for a stock should be better than that. I don’t want a Lancaster with one bolt holding the lock in place so I will attempt to plug that one two after I finish this rifle in the months to come. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Thanks
Joe

 

[64Springer]

Plug it.

Then remove material from the right side of the channel to get everything lined up again.

Then shim the left side of the channel so the drill can't walk that way again.

And the person who said it's normal is an idiot.

 

[bronko220002]

Wow that's really off center! Must have been a Monday morning job! Could you show the pics to the manufacturer? Even though it was 2019 you could explain that you just got around to working on it. They might get sentimental with you and send you a new stock block with the correct inletting.
With the right tools though it shouldn't be too hard to correct. You could fill the entire recess with a dowel including the hole, rasp it flush with the top of the stock, mark where you need to drill and clamp a 2x2 on top and re-drill.

 

[Joemolf]

Plug it.

Then remove material from the right side of the channel to get everything lined up again.

Then shim the left side of the channel so the drill can't walk that way again.

And the person who said it's normal is an idiot.

Thank you 64Springer I didn’t think about the entry pipe channel they gave me a small 3/8x3x6 I guess patch material. I’ll do that! Epoxy right?He said it was normal on originals but those were different times. I’m 65 and in the last few years I am noticing that the buyer has to be ware of everything. I expect better. I spent a lot of money at TOTW a lot! I purchased finished rifles from them on top of it all. Yeah a fool with money I am. Problem is I don’t have a lot of money but sacrifice for things I want. I was expecting them to say send the unopened one back we’ll make sure to send you a better stock. I paid about the same money for the stocks and parts as I did for the meticulous kits that Mr Kimbler sells! I would suggest to Jim he start producing partially inlet stocks in various models. I know it’s different but today you should be able to get stocks with straight holes centered between the base of the barrel and the ramrod. Anyway are you a Springer shooter by that name i was thinking Beeman Springer rifles? Thanks again

 

[Joemolf]

Wow that's really off center! Must have been a Monday morning job! Could you show the pics to the manufacturer? Even though it was 2019 you could explain that you just got around to working on it. They might get sentimental with you and send you a new stock block with the correct inletting.
With the right tools though it shouldn't be too hard to correct. You could fill the entire recess with a dowel including the hole, rasp it flush with the top of the stock, mark where you need to drill and clamp a 2x2 on top and re-drill.

I asked but they didn’t offer just don’t trust any thing TOTW sells. There’s others I will give my future business to. I don’t know that I can fix the channel properly but I will try other wise it will be the first piece of maple I burned in a long time. We have an abundance of oak here so I use that mostly! Lol the stock gets pretty thin in that area looking at the plans cross views. Never a dull moment lately. Thanks!

 

[64Springer]

Thank you 64Springer I didn’t think about the entry pipe channel they gave me a small 3/8x3x6 I guess patch material. I’ll do that! Epoxy right?He said it was normal on originals but those were different times. I’m 65 and in the last few years I am noticing that the buyer has to be ware of everything. I expect better. I spent a lot of money at TOTW a lot! I purchased finished rifles from them on top of it all. Yeah a fool with money I am. Problem is I don’t have a lot of money but sacrifice for things I want. I was expecting them to say send the unopened one back we’ll make sure to send you a better stock. I paid about the same money for the stocks and parts as I did for the meticulous kits that Mr Kimbler sells! I would suggest to Jim he start producing partially inlet stocks in various models. I know it’s different but today you should be able to get stocks with straight holes centered between the base of the barrel and the ramrod. Anyway are you a Springer shooter by that name i was thinking Beeman Springer rifles? Thanks again

If you're quick with your assembly, Tite Bond III wood glue would work and it's waterproof. But it bonds wood quickly. And can make installing a plug a real bear. Slow set epoxy will give you more working time and will still be waterproof.

If it were me, I'd plug the entire length of that hole. You don't want the drill breaking through your short plug only to hit the mis-drilled hole so it can wander off center again.

I'll never claim to know more than some the guys around here, but I've read that ramrod channels were cheated to the LEFT side of the stock to get away from the lock internals.

Drilling a ramrod hole toward the lock side is coo coo for cocoa puffs.

Best of luck with her.

 

[2 shots]

pride in workmanship is a VERY rare thing these days. i applaud jim kibler for inspecting his kits and noting and marking them down when a defect is found. lots of company's would just box them up and send them out.

 

[Joemolf]

If you're quick with your assembly, Tite Bond III wood glue would work and it's waterproof. But it bonds wood quickly. And can make installing a plug a real bear.

Slow set epoxy will give you more working time and will still be waterproof.

I'll never claim to know more than some the guys around here, but I've read that ramrod channels were cheated to the LEFT side of the stock to get away from the lock internals.

Drilling a ramrod hole toward the lock side is coo coo for cocoa puffs.

Best of luck with her.

Yes you are correct they cheated going to the left only to far. I was able to install the lock without interference with the ramrod or the barrel. These are issues that can happen to the scratch builder but CNC inlet and drilled i don’t think anyone should see. I have to think about this carefully. That channel needs to be filled as well otherwise I’m not going to have the material on that side. I can see the bondo on standby acraglass that is on back order every where! LOL

 

[Joemolf]

pride in workmanship is a VERY rare thing these days. i applaud jim kibler for inspecting his kits and noting and marking them down when a defect is found. lots of company's would just box them up and send them out.

Concur great guy that Jim Kimbler!

 

[64Springer]

Yes you are correct they cheated going to the left only to far. I was able to install the lock without interference with the ramrod or the barrel. These are issues that can happen to the scratch builder but CNC inlet and drilled i don’t think anyone should see. I have to think about this carefully. That channel needs to be filled as well otherwise I’m not going to have the material on that side. I can see the bondo on standby acraglass that is on back order every where! LOL

Bronko had a great idea about install a dowel inside the stock and the entire channel all the way to the nose.

Would give a totally fresh start.

 

[ronaldrothb49]

I NEVER order a pre carved stock with the lock inlet because of the first problem you listed. I will not file a notch in a breech plug. I did have a ramrod hole come out the belly of the stock when I was finish shaping one. Just plugged the hole, re-drilled it and made a belly plate to hide the plug. Don't know what caliber barrel you have. If you could go up to a 7/16" ramrod you could open the ramrod channel to the wide side and hide most of the offset. Then plug the hole and re-drill it. Get a real ram rod hole drill they are less likely to wander and go slow about an inch at a time. If I am drilling a ramrod hole I wait until the thimbles are in place and then use them as a guide for the ramrod drill bit.

 

[Joemolf]

I NEVER order a pre carved stock with the lock inlet because of the first problem you listed. I will not file a notch in a breech plug. I did have a ramrod hole come out the belly of the stock when I was finish shaping one. Just plugged the hole, re-drilled it and made a belly plate to hide the plug. Don't know what caliber barrel you have. If you could go up to a 7/16" ramrod you could open the ramrod channel to the wide side and hide most of the offset. Then plug the hole and re-drill it. Get a real ram rod hole drill they are less likely to wander and go slow about an inch at a time. If I am drilling a ramrod hole I wait until the thimbles are in place and then use them as a guide for the ramrod drill bit.

Do you know of a supplier for ram rod drill?
In this rifle I installed a B profile Rice Swamp barrel. It’s 45 caliber.
That notching the butt plug is bad news. I purchased a nice rifle essentially the same rifle I’m trying my hand at that had that problem. I didn’t realize it was the norm based on the plans. I believe it even instructs to notch the face of the plug after installing the touch hole. I ended up buying a very unreliable rifle that looked great. I ended up counterboring it so not too affect the threads maintaining the same breach plug length. I did not want to do that on this rifle so I moved the barrel back about 5/64s not realizing the sides would loosen due to the natural curve of the swamp barrel. So it is a bit loose but not sloppy loose. So I have two strikes! One more i will burn it. Those will be on me hopefully not!

 

[dave_person]

Hi,
If you follow my thread on building a Ferguson rifle, you will see I had to deal with the same problem.

dave

 

[rich pierce]

I’m not clear on a couple things. It sounds like the lock is pre-inlet. And the ramrod hole did not break into the mainspring inlet. Right so far? Is the hole aiming toward the side plate?

I would drill a 1/16” hole through the ramrod groove into the barrel channel right where the entry thimble would be. Then I’d know how far off center the ramrod hole is relative to center of bottom flat of the barrel.

 

[Billy Boy]

If you're quick with your assembly, Tite Bond III wood glue would work and it's waterproof. But it bonds wood quickly. And can make installing a plug a real bear. Slow set epoxy will give you more working time and will still be waterproof.

If it were me, I'd plug the entire length of that hole. You don't want the drill breaking through your short plug only to hit the mis-drilled hole so it can wander off center again.

I'll never claim to know more than some the guys around here, but I've read that ramrod channels were cheated to the LEFT side of the stock to get away from the lock internals.

Drilling a ramrod hole toward the lock side is coo coo for cocoa puffs.

Best of luck with her.

Agree, Tite Bond III is the way to go.

 

[ColonialRifleSmith]

Hi,
If you follow my thread on building a Ferguson rifle, you will see I had to deal with the same problem.

dave

IMHO. Dave demonstrates the correct way to repair an off-center ramrod hole. Thanks Dave for this pic series. Excellent. Semper Fi.

 

[Joemolf]

I NEVER order a pre carved stock with the lock inlet because of the first problem you listed. I will not file a notch in a breech plug. I did have a ramrod hole come out the belly of the stock when I was finish shaping one. Just plugged the hole, re-drilled it and made a belly plate to hide the plug. Don't know what caliber barrel you have. If you could go up to a 7/16" ramrod you could open the ramrod channel to the wide side and hide most of the offset. Then plug the hole and re-drill it. Get a real ram rod hole drill they are less likely to wander and go slow about an inch at a time. If I am drilling a ramrod hole I wait until the thimbles are in place and then use them as a guide for the ramrod drill bit.

I’m

Hi,
If you follow my thread on building a Ferguson rifle, you will see I had to deal with the same problem.

dave

Dave top notch no pun intended! I have to wake up. Your misalignment is the opposite side of mine. That’s obviously a harder repair at least my stock is still square

 

[Joemolf]

I’m not clear on a couple things. It sounds like the lock is pre-inlet. And the ramrod hole did not break into the mainspring inlet. Right so far? Is the hole aiming toward the side plate?

I would drill a 1/16” hole through the ramrod groove into the barrel channel right where the entry thimble would be. Then I’d know how far off center the ramrod hole is relative to center of bottom flat of the barrel.

Yes the stock was partially inlet as was the barrel and ramrod tube. Yes the ramrod tube aims towards the side panel and that is a good thing I’m thinking.
I think I am going to just plug the fore stock a few inches, chisel out the first few inches of the stock, fabricate a hardwood drill block that fits the notch I have to chisel out, locate a hole in the drill block, and then clamp in place and drill . Simple right . I also was thinking filling entire length and then using a router to cut a new ramrod groove entire length. I’m thinking I need that groove perfectly straight so when I find a drill it can be held in place. My ramrod channel is 3/8. I’m thinking I can’t use a spare ramrod because they are hickory I have to use either maple but I’m thinking something softer would be easier to drill. I’m wondering if I just plug half the hole? The ramrod channel was centered vertically I installed the lock plate with no interference with the barrel or the ramrod which was nice. This is going to take me a while.

 

[Joemolf]

I’m not clear on a couple things. It sounds like the lock is pre-inlet. And the ramrod hole did not break into the mainspring inlet. Right so far? Is the hole aiming toward the side plate?

I would drill a 1/16” hole through the ramrod groove into the barrel channel right where the entry thimble would be. Then I’d know how far off center the ramrod hole is relative to center of bottom flat of the barrel.

I can do that easy it is 3/32 off minimum. Id like to maintain existing channel but I don’t think it will work out when time comes to shape the stock the wood gets pretty thin the entire length reviewing the plans

 

[Joemolf]

IMHO. Dave demonstrates the correct way to repair an off-center ramrod hole. Thanks Dave for this pic series. Excellent. Semper Fi.

Dave walks on water! Me I swim like a rock! I will certainly study his repair