Ramrod to Short!

[Splais]

I finally got the bright idea to stick a thinner rod down the stock hole. I put a 1/8" steel rod down the rod tube and low and behold it went all the way to the breech plug. I couldn't feel anything, so something like a lock pin was probably stopping the rod so someone just cut three inches off the end and said the heck with it.

I'll post a pic of my lock later. But it only has one screw and that is the one that holds the hammer on; well plus the one holding the nipple. there are what looks like two pins at the back, one in the front and another in the top center just in front of the hammer. The only that that is a factor is the front pin. I have no idea how to remove this lock so I'll post that pic for some advice.

 

[paulvallandigham]

If you will look at the left side of the stock, opposite the lockplate, you should see one or two bolt heads, with screw driver slots in them. These are the cross bolts that hold the lockplate to the stock. PUt witness marks from one end of the screw slot onto the washer, or stock under the head, so you can return the screws to the same place when you put them back in the gun. Then turn out the screws 2 turns, but leave them in the lockplate. Now tap both the screws to move the lockplate out of the mortiss a small amount, before removing the two bolts entirely. With the hammer set at half cock, it would be easy to lift the lockplate off the stock. The two lockplate bolts have different lengths, and, sometime, different diameters, so place them somewhere so that you know which goes where, when you go to put the lock back together. Nothing good comes from switching these two bolts.

If that ramrod in your gun is made of wood, you can sand or file the end of the rod to a taper to fit behind or under the forward lockplate bolt shank. The rod is used mainly to push a patched RB down the barrel for loading the gun. Not for cleaning it. Its too fragile for heavy work. So, tapiring the shalft of the ramrod does no harm to its ability to perform its function.

 

[Splais]

After seeing these pics do you need to change anything in your help - thanks Steve

 

[paulvallandigham]

AH, a LHed gun! :hatsoff: You are after my heart.

This gun has only ONE lockplate bolt, which is that flower shaped steel head sticking above the brass sideplate on the right side. The front of that threaded bolt is seen just in front of the hammer on the left side view, near the top of the lockplate. One of those "cuts" in that steel bolt head will fit a special gunsmith screw driver blade. You may not be able to use an ordinary screwdriver, unless you re-grind and file it to fit the slot. Gunsmith screw drivers can be bought from many of the suppliers, and I am using a Lyman version with magnetic, changeable bits, and blades. I also have another multiple blade screwdriver, from someone else. And I have single bladed, dedicated, gunsmith screw drivers I bought from Gunsmith Estate sales, and from suppliers like Brownell's. That is the bolt that you need to loosen, to remove the lockplate, from the mortise, so you can examine the parts, clean the lock and parts, polish and oil them.

Go to Bob Spenser's Black Powder Notebook,
http://members.aye.net/~bspen/index.html

and find his articles on percussion lock terminology. He has good pictures there, with a legend that describes the names of each part. That will help you negotiate yourself around the lock parts, see what moves where, and against what else, and better understand any advice you receive here about cleaning and tuning the lock.

 

[Splais]

thanks for the help - and if you are interested I have a thread in the Percussion forum on my acquistion of this Robert Ashe rifle.

 

[Splais]

I am stilling working on this 'short ramrod' problem. I have determined that I can put a 1/4" rod all the way to the breech plug and can't feel any protrusion. I have removed the lock and unfortunitely the ramrod channel does not extend into the lock hole.

Whatever is blocking the rod is located right were the front of the trigger guard ends about 2" in front of the barrel end. When I shoved a new clean rod down the hole it left a mark on the rod.

Here is my question. Are there barrel pins that far back (can't see any); does the plate opposite the lock have any pins in it (yes, guess I will remove it and see); If no pins, what about sanding down the end of the rod to a taper small enough to fit. One last thing, I should have noticed if the mark was on the top, bottom or side of rod. I'll check tomarrow.

 

[Zonie]

If the stop was located about where the trigger guard bow meets the forward plate I would suspect that the cast lug on the top of the trigger guard was the problem.
This lug is part of the trigger guard casting and a cross pin will be drilled thru it to hold the trigger guard in place. I see that pin in the right side view, just below the sideplate.
Unfortunately, it is too low and too far aft to be the cause of the ramrod stoppage.

With the lock screw removed have you tried to remove the brass sideplate?
There is a chance that the builder did put a pin on the front of the sideplate (although I can't see any evidence of it going all of the way thru the sideplate).
If the builder did solder a pin on the front of the sideplate it could be what is interfering with the ramrod.

That sideplate should almost fall off of the side of the stock if the lock screw is removed although I have inletted some of them so tightly it takes a little tap thru the screw hole from the lock side to knock them out of the mortice.

I assume that while you have the lock removed, you looked in the mortice for any pins, screws or other things in the pocket that would intersect the ramrod hole? Normally there wouldn't be anything like this in that cavity but you never know until you look. :grin:

 

[tjohnson56]

Any chance it could be a ferrule from a broken ramrod or the ferrule came off of another ramrod?

 

[Splais]

I suspected a piece of rod before I put the small rod all the way to the end.

I did look for anything I could see in the lock inletting hole - nothing. the blockage is not back by the actual guard, but up at the front edge of that forward decrotive protrusion that sticks about an inch forward of the actual guard. Because I had the lock and pin out and the side plate did not fall off; I'm thinking your side plate pin idea may be the problem. I'll check tomarrow.

 

[Splais]

Well I'm 95% sure what the problem is. There must be a tang on the side plate that is obstructing the rod. When I shove the rod down hard it leaves a mark on the side away from the barrel and leaves a little sliver of wood like it scrapped on a sharp edge. I tried to remove the sideplate, but it will not budge and sticking something down the lock screw hole doesn't help. Have no idea how I can get the plate off to file down whatever tang is on it; but I sure don't want to damage the stock trying.

 

[Zonie]

If you don't want to do this it is totally understandable but, if this were my gun I would be very tempted to remove the side plate.

To do this, I would measure the size of the screw hole in the side plate. I would then select a drill bit slightly larger than that hole. Maybe 1/32 of an inch larger. Although I would probably have to go to the hardware store to buy such a drill bit I would not use a bit that was larger.
Having a screw clearance hole that is 1/32 oversize should not hurt the stock and it will have no effect on the screws installation or function.

I would then drill from the lock side of the gun thru the wood just until the drill bit hit the side plate. I would NOT drill thru the sideplate.
Now, with a slightly larger hole to work with I would use a small pin punch or short piece of music wire with a square end on it, thru the newly enlarged hole to "catch on the side plate. I would then lightly tap the end of my pin punch to drive the side plate out of its mortice.

Done carefully this should not cause the stock to be damaged.

 

[Splais]

Well I sure want to 'fix' this problem. I will consider it. I don't think the side plate is inlet, least it doesn't look like it. I think it has a couple of tangs on it that are pushed into the stock. I'll also try a very pointed something again and see if I can catch the sideplate edge from the backside.

 

[Splais]

Well, the journey is over - almost. it wasn't the side plate either. I got it off and it was inlet and it didn't have a tang on it. The problem was .......the channel was not cut properly :hmm: just wasn't deep enough for the ramrod to clear the inlet front of the triggerguard. Well now I have a new problem; but I moved the question over to the Gunbuilders Bench Forum under "Ramrod Channel Cut Wrong". go over and read it and help with the answer. :v