Ramrod use

[Blackpowdersmoke]

pinemarten,

Here's a rod you might consider...
http://www.periodramrod.com/

I had this fellow build me one for a .54 T/C Renegade I have with a 32" GM round ball barrel. Partly because I didn't like the aluminum rod that came with the barrel, and partly because I wanted something that looked better on the rifle and was functionally as strong or better. These rods have a solid steel core and he'll build them to your specs... the length, diameter, type of material for the ends and threads, etc., etc.

I feel that the extra weight of the steel core helps aid in "sliding" that ball down the barrel once it's in motion

He's a very nice fellow to deal with and I spoke with him personally by phone concerning what I wanted. Just something for you to consider.

BPS

 

[tenngun]

Tried it 40 years ago. Had a 5 foot p v c pipe, glued a cap on the bottom, dropped in a few blanks filled with keosen capped the other end and came back in about a year. They were stinky, felt oily to the touch. The first one I tried to break snapped just as easy fresh blank. After about two weeks it was all dried out and that oily feel had left.
Grasp your rod close to the muzzle, 10 inchs or so you won't bend your rod enough to break.

 

[Rifleman1776]

I didn't know how much force it was supposed to take

Mike B. pretty well covered a lot of your concerns. But, there is no fixed amount of force it is supposed to take to seat your ball. That is determined (in a good barrel) by your ball/patch combo that gives you the best shooting results you are after. e.g. a serious 'X' hunting target shooter will probably use a larger ball than the hunter or casual shooter will. And, in turn, require more force to seat. Many woods only shooters prefer a smaller ball that seats easily. With time you will find what works for you.

 

[pinemarten]

Thank you for the helpful replies! Is there any significant loss of energy from the slightly smaller/less snug prb or is it more the difference in accuracy that is the trade off? If I want to kill a big ol' bar with my 50, will the tighter ball with more energy make a difference in getting the job done?

Daniel

 

[Grizzly Adams]

A tight fitting combo will lead to slightly higher pressures, but if a looser combo shoots better, that is what matters most.

 

[tenngun]

Adding a 100 fps to a ball won't pay off down range. a .50 with a 42 inch barrel and a 120 grain charge of 3G will give you about 2200 fps. Getting 100 fps with a tighter patch ball combo is unlikely, but if you did shoot at 2300 fps at 50 yards it's slowed to1750 fps only 60 fps faster then the ball fired at 2200 fps. At 100 yards the 2300 fps ball has slowed to 1300 fps 1250 for the slower ball. In fact a 1800 fps ball that started out 500 fps slower will still be over 1000 fps at 100 yards. Extra velocity just won't buy you down range power.

 

[rushlake1]

Thank you for the helpful replies! Is there any significant loss of energy from the slightly smaller/less snug prb or is it more the difference in accuracy that is the trade off? If I want to kill a big ol' bar with my 50, will the tighter ball with more energy make a difference in getting the job done?

Daniel

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---Shot placement-shot placement-shot placement---
Load a double ball patched load for more ventilation, whomp,recoil.
Both round balls will print close together..
Most shots here are under 50 yards.
It works on bear.

 

[Blackpowdersmoke]

Thank you for the helpful replies! Is there any significant loss of energy from the slightly smaller/less snug prb or is it more the difference in accuracy that is the trade off? If I want to kill a big ol' bar with my 50, will the tighter ball with more energy make a difference in getting the job done?

Daniel

---------------------------------------------------
---Shot placement-shot placement-shot placement---
Load a double ball patched load for more ventilation, whomp,recoil.
Both round balls will print close together..
Most shots here are under 50 yards.
It works on bear.

And what if he doesn't get the second ball seated firmly on top of the first? Now he has a bore obstruction... definitely not good. Something I would never recommend!

BPS

 

[Khufu]

wanna kill a bar, instead of 2 balls that may, or may not wind up where you are pointing, try a bigger ball, like a .58 or a .62. they get very angry when you wound them.

 

[Gene L]

If he doesn't get the first ball seated on the powder, then he's got a bore obstruction, too. Same rules apply, I'd think. I can't see how seating the ball(s) with a clean bore would be an issue...one or two.

Not that I'd ever do such a thing. Bring big enough gun for bar and hold tight and pick a shot. At least that's what I believe; I've never shot a bar with anything and don't intend to do so, so I'm just theorizing.

 

[Stumpkiller]

---Shot placement-shot placement-shot placement---
Load a double ball patched load for more ventilation, whomp,recoil.
Both round balls will print close together..
Most shots here are under 50 yards.
It works on bear.

Two balls (double the mass) with the same powder may be a losing proposition because it costs you velocity. Energy is 1/2 the mass x velocity squared, so upping the velocity has much more advantage than upping the mass. But two balls ups the pressure so I'm not sure where it works out. Might be better to hit it with one accurate ball. And double-balls aren't legal in some states.

 

[rushlake1]

And what if he doesn't get the second ball seated firmly on top of the first? Now he has a bore obstruction... definitely not good. Something I would never recommend!

BPS
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Load the second ball with a thinner patch to relieve the trapped air. Its not rocket science.
with a marked ram rod there is no guessing.

 

[rushlake1]

Two balls (double the mass) with the same powder may be a losing proposition because it costs you velocity. Energy is 1/2 the mass x velocity squared, so upping the velocity has much more advantage than upping the mass. But two balls ups the pressure so I'm not sure where it works out. Might be better to hit it with one accurate ball. And double-balls aren't legal in some states.
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If you were the bear would you rather get hit with one round ball or two?

 

[rushlake1]

personally 50 cal. would be the top end I feel comfy shooting a double ball patched load...This would be in lieu of buying a larger caliber gun.

 

[rushlake1]

wanna kill a bar, instead of 2 balls that may, or may not wind up where you are pointing, try a bigger ball, like a .58 or a .62. they get very angry when you wound them.

---------------------------------------------
Have you shot a double patched-ball load ?

They hit where you aim..mine did...My hunting partners did...a little over an inch apart at 50 yards.

 

[coloradoclyde]

And double-balls aren't legal in some states.

Including yours :nono:

 

[Loyalist Dave]

I wonder if a DNR officer would consider a double patched round ball load a "buckshot" load? I know for deer and muzzleloader season, they would be a no-no :nono: in my state. For bear...I'm not sure.

As for the mass folks, a double .490 all-lead round ball load is a total of 354 grains of lead, and TC offers a .50 caliber Maxi-Hunter in 350 grain weight. So all that you're doing with the double ball load is replicating an old load. IF you're worried about not seating the bullets and having a problem, then simply use the TC product IF your rifle will shoot them well.

FYI in the earliest TC manuals for their Hawken, they had double-ball loading data for hunting deer with their .45 caliber version. It seems the boys at TC didn't think a single .440 round ball would take a whitetail well. :shocked2: :shake:


LD

 

[Tom Compton]

Double balls stack vertically on target 1-1 1/2" apart. Velocity is not reduced enough to lower the energy and recoil is increased, ask your shoulder. IMO a .50 cal PRB pushed w 70 or more gr of BP and put in the right place does not require double balling for black bear.

 

[Blackpowdersmoke]

And what if he doesn't get the second ball seated firmly on top of the first? Now he has a bore obstruction... definitely not good. Something I would never recommend!

BPS
----------------------------------------------


Load the second ball with a thinner patch to relieve the trapped air. Its not rocket science.
with a marked ram rod there is no guessing.

I'm not saying it can't be done, but it's a risky proposition. A friend of mine accidentally double balled his rifle one time during a shooting session. Having realized what he'd done, he elected to push the second ball down on top of the first rather than try and pull it. Well, he had a heck of a time getting it down because he was using a tight fitting patch and the trapped air was a bugger. After getting it down all the way and verifying it by measuring, he (reluctantly) fired the rifle and you're right, they printed on top one another in the target. It's just something I wouldn't recommend anyone doing...

BPS

 

[54ball]

Thank you for the helpful replies! Is there any significant loss of energy from the slightly smaller/less snug prb or is it more the difference in accuracy that is the trade off? If I want to kill a big ol' bar with my 50, will the tighter ball with more energy make a difference in getting the job done?

Daniel

Simply put....
I use my guns and rifles like they were used then. I prime and load off the same powder usually 2ff. I use a load the I can easily seat with just the wooden ram rod. I am not a target shooter that has nightmares about minutes of angle and the occasional ball that's 1 inches out from the group. I'm a meat hunter.
Most of these shots and groups you read about are from a bench. All that flies out the window in field conditions. The "loose" loading you are concerned about will still hit and shoot better than you can in field conditions.

My advice shoot, shoot and shoot. Mimic the shots you would take in the field. Find a load that you load easily and that's accurate.

The most accurate rifle have ever touched was a 45 NC Mountain longrifle. I could thumbstart the ball.