Ramrods and Re-enactments (and stuff)

[Panama Red]

Some threads on here got me wondering. I’ve never been to a re-enactment, although there is a large one near my home (Battle of Olustee) but a post by Loyalist Dave got me wondering if the guns used were capable of actually firing a round, and not just “drill guns”, which he said, yeah, they are real, and can shoot, but are just loaded with powder to make noise and smoke.
Which brought to mind the thread on shooting your ramrod… sure, no one stuffs a ball down the muzzle, but what about the ramrod? Or do they even use the rod in re-enactments?
The whole thing kind of sets me on edge. I mean, it breaks two of the rules of gun safety right off the bat, and maybe a third, depending on if you use “Always be sure of your target”, or “Never point your gun at anything you aren’t wanting to shoot.”
I guess all this stems from a time in my life where I got lazy with the rules… discharged a weapon inside my house, on two separate occasions, with other people in the house. Fortunately, no one was injured, and the hole in my bedroom wall, and through my shower, was easily patched, and I bought my wife a new dining room table, so it didn’t turn out bad, but it could have.
The guy that taught me to “REALLY shoot” a pistol was pretty careless with his gun handling, and I just kind of adopted that same attitude. Never gave it much thought, until I had the opportunity to shoot with one of my gun heroes, big muckity muck that writes for all the shoot ‘em up tactical gee-whiz magazines, and he grabbed my pistol and forced the muzzle up, as I turned to talk to someone, sweeping the people in attendance with the muzzle of my weapon… nothing gets your attention like your gun guru snatching a pistol from your hand. He gave me a brief, HARD lesson in gun handling, which I have never forgotten.
I guess I don’t really have anything else to add to it all. It just makes me nervous. Just ask Alec Baldwin how real a “blank” gun is…
-Red, probably more nervous than is necessary…

 

[Loyalist Dave]

So since we don't load a ball, we have nothing to ram down. In the 1970's when I was doin ACW, they would actually remove the ramrods and leave them in camp.

The combat loading procedure for the muskets of the flintlock era is unsafe. You open the cartridge and prime the lock, THEN you load the main charge, and ram that down to be seated upon the powder. The ramrod is returned to its place on the musket, and you're ready to fire. You're relying on the half-cock notch and no stray sparks, to keep you from losing fingers.

LD

 

[Brazos John]

With The Texas Army, at the different reenactments down here, ramrods are treated differently by the different groups running the event.
At first, we would open the paper cartridge, dump the powder down the barrel, stuff the paper in the barrel, ram it down, put the ramrod back, and fire the load.
But then, somebody, somewhere, some time long ago, apparently fired a ramrod downrange, and now certain groups don't allow ramming the paper - just drop the paper, bump the rifle to settle the powder, and fire the load. Sometimes, we can't even have the ramrod on the gun.
Other groups still allow the ramming of the paper.
We make sure we follow the rules, wherever we are, but we will ask, to make sure.

You open the cartridge and prime the lock, THEN you load the main charge, and ram that down to be seated upon the powder.

I've displayed with more-experienced historians, and sometimes they explain to visitors the procedure above. I don't do that - I load the barrel, and then prime the pan with a pan primer. Even if it's not historically correct, I don't want anyone blowing off digits because of something I showed them.

 

[Grenadier1758]

When we load the blank cartridges for reenactment purposes, the ramrod is never used. When we fire, the musket is elevated and pointed upwards so the aim is not pointed at anyone.

 

[MAPMFF]

Additionally, At every event we put our units through safety.

Prior to a battle..

Open the pans, drop the muzzles down and give it a shake make sure there is nothing loose inside the barrel. Then we draw rammers and spring them down the barrel as the inspector passes by, listening for a clean ping as the rod hits the breech. Any thuds, or duds and perhaps the barrel is fowled and or obstructed. This is repeated after falling out after a battle.

Additionally we always check to make sure that the half-cock is strong and does not release when given a strong trigger squeeze, not to say something couldn't wear or break during an engagement (I've had it happen and just stopped firing), but it is checked prior to taking the field, in addition to hammer stalls and flash guards being mandatory.

If a musket fails safety or deemed unclean or unsafe in any other way that reenactor is told to leave the field or just not to fire.

As Grenadier1758 said we don't typically point directly at each other, though we do level our muzzles at large distances or offset laterally instead of aiming high in the sky when we are at great distances. As we move closer, then we will often oblique left or right + elevating over an opposing unit.

 

[dave951]

Back when I was reenacting ACW, we never, ever pulled a ramrod on the field. It was strictly dump the powder in, cap, fire. Now I shoot in live fire competition with Civil War arms and you better believe we are well acquainted with the use of a ramrod.

 

[Tumbledown]

Oh, our guns are VERY real. And VERY capable of catastrophic consequences if mishandled.

The Continental Line is an umbrella group for Rev War groups, and their rules say the ramrod is never to be used in tacticle demos.

As a sidenote, LD mentioned the loading process. Some groups may ground the butt when going from prime to load, while others don't allow it. Keeping the butt off the ground removes the chance of unintentional discharge from the jolt.

Unfortunately, all of the safety rules in the world don't mean a thing if they aren't followed. Earlier this spring, there was a discharge of a musket inside a museum in Massachusetts (see my signature for a link.) Fortunately, it only put a hole in the structure, not a person. This led to my group adopting a rule above and beyond the CL rules that forbids anyone from having projectiles on or about their person during a tactical demonstration. It won't prevent absolute stupidity or negligence, but is one more point in emphasizing the seriousness and attention needed in our hobby.

 

[Panama Red]

Thanks for the replies! I figured there had to be some major safety rules to follow, or you’d be hearing about it in the news all the time. After lighting off a round in the house a couple times, you start thinking on these things.
Planning on going to watch the Olustee re-enactment next February.

-Red, probably should have thought of those things BEFORE shooting his shower…

 

[dave951]

And yes, some of us are still reenactors but the guns are quite real.

 

[Muddly]

I was the Ordnance sergeant for my company ( E Co. 1st Texas Vol Infy)
And I was the only one permitted to draw a rammer on the field.
If someone else was spotted doing so, back to camp and home you go.
In our battalion, we also inspected sidearms, swords, artillery and cartridge boxes. You'd be shocked by what was occasionally found.
There was one fella our battalion ord. Sgt. found with a cut off and rethreaded rammer.
And the musket was loaded.
With a minie.
He used that rammer as a lesson to be very sure you spring ramers and not just look for the end flush with the muzzle, during weapons inspection.
Yes the cops were called. No they did nothing because " No actual crime was committed".
Lovely...

 

[BillyC]

Just curious, why were the cops called? Did he do something intentionally or just make a boneheaded mistake. If just a mistake seems a little harsh to call the cops.

 

[Muddly]

!
He loaded a LIVE round, measured, cut and rethreaded the rammer to give the appearance of an empty barrel hoping to get past a lazy inspector.
That was NO accident.
Reckless endangerment?
Criminal negligence?
If he hadn't been caught before going on the field...
Murder.
Would probably have gotten away with it too. Thousands of rifle muskets, who's was it?

 

[BillyC]

I see now this wasn’t an accident and I get why you would call the police.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Oh, our guns are VERY real. And VERY capable of catastrophic consequences if mishandled.

The Continental Line is an umbrella group for Rev War groups, and their rules say the ramrod is never to be used in tacticle demos.

As a sidenote, LD mentioned the loading process. Some groups may ground the butt when going from prime to load, while others don't allow it. Keeping the butt off the ground removes the chance of unintentional discharge from the jolt.

Unfortunately, all of the safety rules in the world don't mean a thing if they aren't followed. Earlier this spring, there was a discharge of a musket inside a museum in Massachusetts (see my signature for a link.) Fortunately, it only put a hole in the structure, not a person. This led to my group adopting a rule above and beyond the CL rules that forbids anyone from having projectiles on or about their person during a tactical demonstration. It won't prevent absolute stupidity or negligence, but is one more point in emphasizing the seriousness and attention needed in our hobby.

Incidentally, we also do not run with fixed bayonets. Our safety procedures mean that those of us doing the "flint era conflicts" have an excellent safety record.

Unfortunately, when you get into the ACW muskets, the bayonet is excellent steel, and quite thin, so that even when blunted if the guy in the back rank stumbles and that bayonet comes forward, pounds-per-square-inch it has a better chance of entering the skin of the guy in front.

LD

 

[MAPMFF]

@Loyalist Dave That is one thing I wish we were able to use a bit more, the bayonet. Perhaps not in a full on charge, but at least fielding with them fixed, such an integral part of the weapon itself and the tactics of the day and it is very under represented in reenactments today. I get the safety aspects, and I'm sure the insurance issues that drive a lot of it. But a guy can wish.

I'd be interested to see how the reenactments in Europe are with safety and injuries, where I've seen many a video of bayonets fixed, as well as ramming the blank charge home, and firing in very close proximity to other units.

 

[Rató:rats]

With The Texas Army, at the different reenactments down here, ramrods are treated differently by the different groups running the event.
At first, we would open the paper cartridge, dump the powder down the barrel, stuff the paper in the barrel, ram it down, put the ramrod back, and fire the load.
But then, somebody, somewhere, some time long ago, apparently fired a ramrod downrange, and now certain groups don't allow ramming the paper - just drop the paper, bump the rifle to settle the powder, and fire the load. Sometimes, we can't even have the ramrod on the gun.
Other groups still allow the ramming of the paper.
We make sure we follow the rules, wherever we are, but we will ask, to make sure.


I've displayed with more-experienced historians, and sometimes they explain to visitors the procedure above. I don't do that - I load the barrel, and then prime the pan with a pan primer. Even if it's not historically correct, I don't want anyone blowing off digits because of something I showed them.

I saw a guy at Fort York demonstrating loading and firing his Bess for tourists using the Kings Regulations but he didn’t actually put primer in the pan, just made it look like it did. He cocked and fired and when it klatched he said “that happens pretty often” then he primed it for real and banged her off. I thought it was kinda neat but a lot of people who see it will have the incorrect idea that a flintlock fails to fire about 50% of the time.

 

[Muddly]

We march with bayonets. But only once in 15 years did we ever have them fixed during a fight.
Loading, during the war produced one of the most unexpected wounds, and the most common for the bayonet. Through the palm of the hand! Ramming...
Pointy things are dangerous...

 

[Tumbledown]

!
He loaded a LIVE round, measured, cut and rethreaded the rammer to give the appearance of an empty barrel hoping to get past a lazy inspector.
That was NO accident.
Reckless endangerment?
Criminal negligence?
If he hadn't been caught before going on the field...
Murder.
Would probably have gotten away with it too. Thousands of rifle muskets, who's was it?

More important: Who was his intended target??

The more I think about this, the more horrifying it is.

 

[Muddly]

No doubt the first he set his sights on.

 

[Panama Red]

More important: Who was his intended target??

The more I think about this, the more horrifying it is.

There is a serious evil in that, isn’t there? Killing a random person just for the sake of killing?