Range report: Enfield rifle

[paulmarcone]

Got out to the range today with my Armi Sport 2-band Enfield. This target (see below) was shot seated at 50 yards with 60 grains of FFG Goex and a lubed .575 minie ball.

Also shot some at 100 yards, not as accurate -- 6 out of 11 shots were on target.

This rifle has always shot high and to the left. Today was no exception.

Another fun day at the range, all in all...

 

[longcruise]

Paul, nice report. Every now and then the .58 muskets tempt me. Have not had a .58 for quite a few years but the .575 slugs were a bit loose so I went to a lee modern target minie in .580 and the groups tightened up nicely.

Have you tried round balls in yours?

 

[Swampman]

Looks like it will bring home some meat.

 

[paulmarcone]

Paul, nice report. Every now and then the .58 muskets tempt me. Have not had a .58 for quite a few years but the .575 slugs were a bit loose so I went to a lee modern target minie in .580 and the groups tightened up nicely.

Have you tried round balls in yours?

I have tried patched round balls and they don't shoot as well as the minies...

 

[TFoley]

Got out to the range today with my Armi Sport 2-band Enfield. This target (see below) was shot seated at 50 yards with 60 grains of FFG Goex and a lubed .575 minie ball.

Also shot some at 100 yards, not as accurate -- 6 out of 11 shots were on target.

This rifle has always shot high and to the left. Today was no exception.

Another fun day at the range, all in all...

Try the service load - 2.5 drams of 2Fg - that's 68gr, behind a 535gr Minie made one thou undersize for the barrel - it should easily 'thumb' down the muzzle for a good fit, and the weight of the ramrod should take it down to the powder.

Give it a try and see how it goes. Over here we shoot those babies at 600 yards with a good deal of success - I'm sure that Mr Minshall, a maven on the Enfield, will offer his advice.

tac
Supporter of The Cape Meares Lighthouse Restoration Fund

 

[CoyoteJoe]

Sorry to be a wet blanket but if you can't get patched round balls to group better than the 50 yard target shown there must be something seriously wrong, either with the bore or with your loads. A leaded bore would be my first guess. My Zouave gives groups about that size or a bit smaller at 100 yards with a .570" ball and pillow ticking patch over 80 grains 2f Goex. At 50 yards your groups should be under two inches.

 

[Tumblernotch]

Sorry to be a wet blanket but if you can't get patched round balls to group better than the 50 yard target shown there must be something seriously wrong, either with the bore or with your loads. A leaded bore would be my first guess. My Zouave gives groups about that size or a bit smaller at 100 yards with a .570" ball and pillow ticking patch over 80 grains 2f Goex. At 50 yards your groups should be under two inches.

I have to agree. If you shot this off the bench, you should be able to get all the shots in the 10 ring with at least a couple in the X-ring. Since you had some good shots there, it looks like you may need to weigh and size your bullets.

 

[cal]

I used to shoot a 2 band Enfield made by Parker Hale with an old style minie and a crisco-bees wax lube. I used 50 grains of 3fg Goex and regularly got 5-shot groups of 1 to 2 inches at 50 yards. I believe you are using too much powder and expanding the skirt of the mini. I suggest you contact some NS-SA skirmishers for their opinions.
Cal

 

[TFoley]

I used to shoot a 2 band Enfield made by Parker Hale with an old style minie and a crisco-bees wax lube. I used 50 grains of 3fg Goex and regularly got 5-shot groups of 1 to 2 inches at 50 yards. I believe you are using too much powder and expanding the skirt of the mini. I suggest you contact some NS-SA skirmishers for their opinions.
Cal

I'll simply repeat that the service load was 68gr of FFG, shooting a 535gr Minie bullet - David Minshall's excellent article on shooting the Enfield is a must to read to get the best out of your two or three band Enfield, real or replica.

Remember that the rest of the BP shooting world shoots this fine old arm at long range - not 50 yards, or even 500 yards, but 300 to 600 - and with a great deal of success, too.

tac

 

[RickD]

Keep a post of any progress I`m thinking of buying a rifle like this

 

[paulmarcone]

Sorry to be a wet blanket but if you can't get patched round balls to group better than the 50 yard target shown there must be something seriously wrong, either with the bore or with your loads. A leaded bore would be my first guess. My Zouave gives groups about that size or a bit smaller at 100 yards with a .570" ball and pillow ticking patch over 80 grains 2f Goex. At 50 yards your groups should be under two inches.

The spread in the shots had more to do with me changing my aiming point several times (I should have clarified that). The tight group of four shots just to the right of "X" were the last four shots I took -- in which I used the same aiming point.

It also had been a few months since I shot the rifle.

One other point is that the minies I was using I am not pleased with. Four or five were malformed to the point of being useless.

Some of the best groups I ever shot was when using the homemade bullets cast by Clark Brothers in Warrenton, VA. I plan on going out there later this month and picking up a bunch. Yesterday I just wanted to get rid of the "lower grade" minies in my shooting box.

Since the day I got this rifle in 2006 (brand new) it always shot high and to the left.

My point is that the spread in the group likely has more to do with my shortcomings and the quality of the minie than the rifle.

Thanks for all the tips.

For what it's worth, the best groups I've ever shot with this rifle have come when shooting the minies from Clark Brothers and swaged Enfield bullet (from DGW), coated in Rooster Jacket, lubed at the base and shot with a overhot card on top of the powder. I know there is a lot of disagreement on this site regarding the latter load (swaged bullet coated w/Rooster Jacket, lubed at base and on top of an overshot card) but I got very good results with that combo.

 

[ResearchPress]

I agree with TAC re. loads. 60 grains of FFg is a light load. I use 75 grains of an equivalent powder out to 600 yards and increase the charge to 80 grains for occassional forays at 800 yards.

Spent the weekend in the picturesque Derbyshire country side shooting. Enfield match today fired at 200, 300 and 400 yards. Course of fire was 1 fouler, 1 sighter and 5 to count at 200yds, then at 300 and 400 yards 1 sighter and 5 shots to count. Target is an copy of an 1860s NRA(GB) type with 24" square aiming mark and 8" square centre. The same target was used for all distances. Shooting is prone and unsupported (ie. no sling, cross sticks, wrist rests etc).

In my original two-band I used 75 grains of TPPH (FFg equivalent) with an RCBS bullet, dip lubed. No lube in the base, just grease grooves.

Oh yes... I won the match! :v

David

 

[paulab]

David...One sighter and 5 for score....looks like you have the sights and load figured out pretty well if you won the match! Good Shooting! cheers Paul

 

[TFoley]

Oh yes... I won the match! :v David

Well done, that man! :thumbsup:

tac
Supporter of the Cape Meares Lighthouse Restoration Fund

 

[paulmarcone]

I agree with TAC re. loads. 60 grains of FFg is a light load. I use 75 grains of an equivalent powder out to 600 yards and increase the charge to 80 grains for occassional forays at 800 yards.

Spent the weekend in the picturesque Derbyshire country side shooting. Enfield match today fired at 200, 300 and 400 yards. Course of fire was 1 fouler, 1 sighter and 5 to count at 200yds, then at 300 and 400 yards 1 sighter and 5 shots to count. Target is an copy of an 1860s NRA(GB) type with 24" square aiming mark and 8" square centre. The same target was used for all distances. Shooting is prone and unsupported (ie. no sling, cross sticks, wrist rests etc).

In my original two-band I used 75 grains of TPPH (FFg equivalent) with an RCBS bullet, dip lubed. No lube in the base, just grease grooves.

Oh yes... I won the match! :v

David

First of all, David, nice shooting!

Second, I will try some higher loads -- but what do you say to some of the critics who contend that higher loads blow out the skirts of the minies and decrease accuracy?

 

[ResearchPress]

Second, I will try some higher loads -- but what do you say to some of the critics who contend that higher loads blow out the skirts of the minies and decrease accuracy?

I suggest that there is much repeated internet myth about skirts blowing. How much is down to personal experience I don't know. How many people have recovered these wayward bullets to verify that the skirt has blown? If the skirt is blown, is it powder charge or imperfections in the skirt at casting that caused it. Equally accuracy issues may be due to poor bullet to bore fit, rifle bedding or shooter error. I've also never been convinced on the merits of filling the base with lube - the powder/lube interface just seems to me another variable that I don't need to deal with.

If skirts are blowing then I haven't found evidence of it in my shooting.

My results speak for themselves. I held the 200 yard MLAGB National record for a few years. In 2007 I won the MLAGB National 600 yard Enfield Rifle Championships. In 2008 I broke the MLAGB 600 yard National record, but was second in the match! I still hold the MLAGB National record for 50m Enfield offhand.

I use 75-85 grains of a FFg equivalent powder with shallow base RCBS Minie for 200-800 yards. 50m I use 65 grains and 100m 75 grains of a 'medium grade shooting powder' sold here in the UK. It's a rather dirty and not particularly strong powder, but the fouling stays soft and I don't need to clean between shots.

Find something that works for you and your purposes.


David

 

[Leatherbark]

My old Zouave would blow the skirts off of a 505 grainer and leave them in the breech...............Didnt know it until I was cleaning it and pushed a rod down through something. When I pulled the rod out there was 2 miniball skirts stuck to the end of the rod...........I've heard of re enactors that had been firing live rounds in there muskets at home and then using them to re enact and shoot people when the skrirts blew out as projectiles.

Seems like those big heavy Enfield projectiles have a thicker skirt than the Springfield type.

Bob

 

[ResearchPress]

Spent the weekend in the picturesque Derbyshire country side shooting. Enfield match today fired at 200, 300 and 400 yards.......

I've added a brief report on the above to my blog if anyone is interested. Thorpe Cloud 2010.

David

 

[Misplaced Rebel]

Oh yes, the skirt expansion is no myth.
[youtube]qLi7AkaxKGk&hl[/youtube]

There's a picture at 4:40 min. of a blown Minie Ball.
Leatherbark- The unfortunate thing is that unlike Fur Trade and 18th century (etc.) reenacting, some Civil War reenactors don't even attempt live firing their guns. Some that do make misguided attempts, and end up with skirts (that they don't catch because they don't always clean their guns properly). This is can be a result of poorly-made mass produced Minie balls with defects that weaken the structure of the bullet.
However, this is not always the case when a properly instructed person takes care to inspect their rounds and buy them from those who know how to properly cast them. In general, if you use the right bullets, are careful, and inspect them (in addition to good cleaning of the gun), then you should have no problem at all

I use standard minies (sized to .02 under bore diameter at .576) with 45gr. 2F in my Richmond. No problems yet.
I tried Rapine Wadcutter type Minies in the gun with 45grs, same sizing. The bullets whistled or hissed going down range- an indicator that the skirt has over-expanded. I checked my targets- the groups-at 50 yards- had expanded to about 12 inches square. With 40 grains the groups tightened up to about half to two thirds of that.

Cheers,
-Chris

 

[ResearchPress]

In general, if you use the right bullets, are careful, and inspect them (in addition to good cleaning of the gun), then you should have no problem at all

Cleaning: are you refering to between shots or at end of day?

Last match I shot (200, 300 & 400yds) I fired 19 shots without cleaning, and used 75 grains of an FFg grade powder. No blown skirts.

David