Range Report Veterans Arms 1740 Long Land Brown Bess

[Blueliner67]

Hi all,

I took my new flintlock from Veterans Arms to the range today. I put 10 rounds through the smoothbore and I learned a lot, including the fact I have to learn much more about flintlocks. I had targets out about 50 yards, standard NMLRA targets. I put 4 shots on the paper of the 10, none in the black rings.

That is not to say the musket is not accurate, the lack of accuracy was entirely me. I've been shooting for over 30 years and I'm a US Army Infantryman veteran, so I know how t shoot. However, this was the first time ever shooting a flintlock, and I could tell I was pulling up at the pan ignition. I was using .69 caliber round balls with a lubed .010 patches. 70 grains of 2FG and 3FG in the pan to prime. The first 5 shots went off well. No real issues and very little delay, but some between pan ignition and the main charge ignition. The next 5 shots got harder and harder to ignite the pan, I had a few pan ignitions without main charge ignition. I tried to swab out the barrel, but I have a .75 jag for the range rod and I couldn't get it to go all the way down the barrel. I put some moose milk on a patch and tried to swab out the barrel, but I just could not get it to go all the way down the barrel. I switched to a .58 caliber jag and used multiple patches, and I could get it down the barrel, but it didn't really clean it very well.

The other problem I had was using pre-lubed .70 - .79 caliber patches. The patches were catching on the sides of the barrel and on some shots I am sure the patch was on top of the ball, not below it. So I see I have 2 options, make paper cartridges and just put the ball and the paper down the barrel for each shot, or I can get some thicker pillow ticking, lube it and just use pillow ticking and a patch knife to cut it. Not sure which I should do, so if some of you flintlock experts can shed some light on a better way to swab a barrel and how to make a .69 round ball fit on a patch in a .75 smoothbore better, I would greatly appreciate it.

The other issue I had was the flint. Lucky for me there was someone there with a needle pick so I could get my last round fired after 8 misfires. He knapped the flint and was able to pick the hole into the powder charge and I got the 10th shot off. So I guess I need to learn how to do that. Seems like a brand new flint should last longer before it needs to be knapped. But I don't know.

That's all for now, thanks everyone. I hope that as I shoot a flintlock more, I will learn to be more accurate and I can give a better report. I love the flintlock musket that Veterans Arms made, I have to figure out how to use it better and learn more.


Scott
Blueliner67

 

[flconch53]

1st get some .72 to .73 balls for the gun. You are right the patch was slipping of the ball. .69 plus.01 plus.01 is .72. A brown bess is usually .75 . A jag for a 75 cal should measure around .71. That plus the thickness of the patch would be a snug but useable fit.

 

[Britsmoothy]

Sounds like you are not using a suitable lubricant to keep the fouling soft.

Knapping an edge to the flint is a regular exercise and so is pricking the vent. That allows the flash into the charge reliable.
Cleaning the pan, frizzen and flint edge is important also.

 

[Trot]

Flints can vary, you may get 30 shots out of the next without knapping. If you consistently get that few, you may have to do some lock tuning. Smooth bore flintlocks are definitely a learning experience, well worth the time when you finally get there though!

 

[Blueliner67]

Sounds like you are not using a suitable lubricant to keep the fouling soft.

Knapping an edge to the flint is a regular exercise and so is pricking the vent. That allows the flash into the charge reliable.
Cleaning the pan, frizzen and flint edge is important also.

I'm open to any lubricant suggestions. I am using a moose milk ballistol/water solution now, works well in my 1861 Springfield.

Scott

 

[flconch53]

Moose milk should be fine

 

[Steve Martin]

Blueliner67 - I have been shooting flintlocks for several years now and like you, I went through quite a learning curve. The result of that experience causes me to offer you a few loading rules for flintlocks...ALWAYS prick the vent after loading and BEFORE you prime. ALWAYS wipe clean the flint (underside as well as top). IF you can, try to use 3f or finer powder to prime with for faster and more consistent ignition. Lastly, if you keep having a short life with your flints, most likely your frizzen spring is too strong (stiff) and or, the main spring is too strong or both and either can cause a very short life span for flints. I have owned two Indian made muskets (one was a veteran arms) and both ended up needing the locks tuned due to overly stiff springs. Follow-up on these issues and I think you will be very pleased with the improvement in your shooting experience!

 

[Steve Martin]

Blueliner67, a follow-up post if you will forgive me this after thought...Whatever you do, don't get frustrated by the process involved with getting good results from your flintlocks. For me at least, it was the learning and the discovering how to shoot these great historical firearms that has been so much fun! I had just about become "burned out" with shooting (I have been doing it for over 40 years now), until I discovered flintlocks and they put the fun back into the firearms hobby for me. So keep at it and ENJOY these special firearms!

 

[Grenadier1758]

@Blueliner67 is using a Land Pattern Musket from Veteran Arms.

A few observations and comments. To be successful shooting a flint lock firearm, you need to have some of the necessary tools. A flint knapping awl or a notched screwdriver and a small hammer to keep the flint edge sharp. A vent pick is needed to keep the touch hole clear. Have you measured the bore to know the diameter of the bore? You need that information to select a properly sized cleaning jag. If your jag 0.75 caliber jag could only go halfway down the bore on a fouled barrel, is the wiping patch too dry? I see that @Blueliner67 was using a moose milk dampened patch. A damp patch is needed to soften the fouling with a slightly smaller jag to slide over the fouling to get to the breech then bunch up to pull that softened fouling from the bore and not pack fouling into the touch hole.

Back to knowing the bore diameter. If the bore diameter is 0.750, even 0.770, then a jag of 0.690 is needed with a thick, damp patch to wipe the fouling from the bore. You use that information to match a ball size to the bore. Sure, you can patch a ball to fill the bore, but it is better to know the bore diameter before you start to do load development. A paper patched 0.715 should also fit in the bore.

If Blueliner67 was getting pan flashes and no ignition, then the touch hole was blocked and the touch hole needed to be clearer with a vent pick. There was probably too much fouling at the breech and that needed to be cleared as well.

Flints that only last for a few shots are an indication of the need for some lock tuning. The flint should scrape the face of the steel (frizzen). Adjust the flint to scrape the face of the steel. The mainspring or the feather spring on the steel may be too strong and causing a bashing of the flint against the steel. Once again, some lock tuning is in order.

A Land Pattern Musket should be easy to get to fire as they usually have a large touch hole and large lock and pan to generate a lot of heat to set off the main charge.

Welcome to shooting your musket. Address the problems you observed on your first outing and continue shooting.

 

[SPQR70AD]

I'm open to any lubricant suggestions. I am using a moose milk ballistol/water solution now, works well in my 1861 Springfield.

Scott

try crisco always worked great for me in any type of ML and pistols

 

[sturmkatze]

Wow. They've already said what I tell new flinter folk: ALWAYS wipe the frizzen off with your thumb (a shop rag will work) and then the flint, top and bottom. Very quick and very easy. ALWAYS pick your vent before you prime.

As to swabbing the bore, it just depends on now size and ball size. Muskets are made to use paper cartridges with smaller round balls, so as to load quicker to shoot enemy soldiers. When loading wth a patch and tighter ball, it's different. You need to play with things. 10 rounds is too much. Have a range rod with a. 75 brush and after 5, run it diem and then a patch. Trying it the way you are is sort of unnatural for a flintlock musket.

My .2 cents...

 

[tenngun]

And now you have four cents. I would check the touchhole. I find 1/16 too small and use a 3/32 or 5/64. I don’t routinely prick the hole. But a patch run down between shots you can hear air whoosh out of the hole showing it’s clear. I do blow down the barrel between shots but don’t want to start that debate since a patch does the same thing.
I often shoot a patched ball, but the earliest patch in a smoothbore reference I know of is from the 1840s
A cartridge can shoot well, but often need large charges to shoot best.
A loose ball in a thick patch will work, you might try denim, but a grease works real well
I’ve gotten fifty shots or more from a flint, I’ve gotten three and had it break. French issues during that guns time period was about one in twenty flint to ball
Humidity really effects the gun. And a humid day makes a lot of gunk
Practice your hold.
Even try off a bench with just a primed pan. Concentrate on you hold for two or three seconds after flash. You will soon ignore it.
You say your an experienced shooter, but I’ve been doing this near fifty years and I can’t get consistent with out a rear sight.
Should you not want to mount a rear sight try a witness mark
Those Indian guns are very brightly polished and shiny. Try a little quick blue then navy jelly to grey it a bit, makes it a lot easier to sight for me as I have grey on my in the white barrels

 

[Blueliner67]

Blueliner67 - I have been shooting flintlocks for several years now and like you, I went through quite a learning curve. The result of that experience causes me to offer you a few loading rules for flintlocks...ALWAYS prick the vent after loading and BEFORE you prime. ALWAYS wipe clean the flint (underside as well as top). IF you can, try to use 3f or finer powder to prime with for faster and more consistent ignition. Lastly, if you keep having a short life with your flints, most likely your frizzen spring is too strong (stiff) and or, the main spring is too strong or both and either can cause a very short life span for flints. I have owned two Indian made muskets (one was a veteran arms) and both ended up needing the locks tuned due to overly stiff springs. Follow-up on these issues and I think you will be very pleased with the improvement in your shooting experience!

Thanks, I wouldn't begin to know or even try to tune a lock. I will start wiping the flint and prick the vent before every shot.

 

[Blueliner67]

@Blueliner67 is using a Land Pattern Musket from Veteran Arms.

A few observations and comments. To be successful shooting a flint lock firearm, you need to have some of the necessary tools. A flint knapping awl or a notched screwdriver and a small hammer to keep the flint edge sharp. A vent pick is needed to keep the touch hole clear. Have you measured the bore to know the diameter of the bore? You need that information to select a properly sized cleaning jag. If your jag 0.75 caliber jag could only go halfway down the bore on a fouled barrel, is the wiping patch too dry? I see that @Blueliner67 was using a moose milk dampened patch. A damp patch is needed to soften the fouling with a slightly smaller jag to slide over the fouling to get to the breech then bunch up to pull that softened fouling from the bore and not pack fouling into the touch hole.

Back to knowing the bore diameter. If the bore diameter is 0.750, even 0.770, then a jag of 0.690 is needed with a thick, damp patch to wipe the fouling from the bore. You use that information to match a ball size to the bore. Sure, you can patch a ball to fill the bore, but it is better to know the bore diameter before you start to do load development. A paper patched 0.715 should also fit in the bore.

If Blueliner67 was getting pan flashes and no ignition, then the touch hole was blocked and the touch hole needed to be clearer with a vent pick. There was probably too much fouling at the breech and that needed to be cleared as well.

Flints that only last for a few shots are an indication of the need for some lock tuning. The flint should scrape the face of the steel (frizzen). Adjust the flint to scrape the face of the steel. The mainspring or the feather spring on the steel may be too strong and causing a bashing of the flint against the steel. Once again, some lock tuning is in order.

A Land Pattern Musket should be easy to get to fire as they usually have a large touch hole and large lock and pan to generate a lot of heat to set off the main charge.

Welcome to shooting your musket. Address the problems you observed on your first outing and continue shooting.

Thanks, I am going to get a smaller jag and start swabbing with a thicker patch. I did adjust the flint in the holder and I knapped it to sharp edge now, I hope that will work at the next range day.

 

[Blueliner67]

Wow. They've already said what I tell new flinter folk: ALWAYS wipe the frizzen off with your thumb (a shop rag will work) and then the flint, top and bottom. Very quick and very easy. ALWAYS pick your vent before you prime.

As to swabbing the bore, it just depends on now size and ball size. Muskets are made to use paper cartridges with smaller round balls, so as to load quicker to shoot enemy soldiers. When loading wth a patch and tighter ball, it's different. You need to play with things. 10 rounds is too much. Have a range rod with a. 75 brush and after 5, run it diem and then a patch. Trying it the way you are is sort of unnatural for a flintlock musket.

My .2 cents...

Yes, I do agree. I am gong to go with the paper cartridges and start rolling them and stick with the 69 caliber round ball. I do have a range rod for my 1861 Springfield. I'm going to get a smaller jag then the one I was using.

When I got home and cleaned my Brown Bess, the range rod with the current 75 caliber jag worked fine and pulled out all the fowling. After I had run hot water a few times through the barrel of course.

Scott
Blueliner67

 

[Blueliner67]

And now you have four cents. I would check the touchhole. I find 1/16 too small and use a 3/32 or 5/64. I don’t routinely prick the hole. But a patch run down between shots you can hear air whoosh out of the hole showing it’s clear. I do blow down the barrel between shots but don’t want to start that debate since a patch does the same thing.
I often shoot a patched ball, but the earliest patch in a smoothbore reference I know of is from the 1840s
A cartridge can shoot well, but often need large charges to shoot best.
A loose ball in a thick patch will work, you might try denim, but a grease works real well
I’ve gotten fifty shots or more from a flint, I’ve gotten three and had it break. French issues during that guns time period was about one in twenty flint to ball
Humidity really effects the gun. And a humid day makes a lot of gunk
Practice your hold.
Even try off a bench with just a primed pan. Concentrate on you hold for two or three seconds after flash. You will soon ignore it.
You say your an experienced shooter, but I’ve been doing this near fifty years and I can’t get consistent with out a rear sight.
Should you not want to mount a rear sight try a witness mark
Those Indian guns are very brightly polished and shiny. Try a little quick blue then navy jelly to grey it a bit, makes it a lot easier to sight for me as I have grey on my in the white barrels

Will give that a try, thanks!

Scott
Blueliner67

 

[Musket69]

I enjoy shooting my Veteran Arms Long Land... Fires very reliably. I clean the frizzen with rubbing alcohol and micro fiber rag. I prick the vent every shot and brush/wipe the pan when I clean the frizzen. My load is 80gr 2f BP, .692 round ball patched with a cotton 1 1/2 in round cleaning patch, mic at .0145, with TC Bore Butter on patch. My bore mics at .741. Get good results at 50 yards, 100 yards - ? Hit the earth in the vicinity of the target. Much smoke and noise. I prime the pan with 3f and get no appreciable delay. Have about 25 rds down with original flint.
Absolutely hate to clean it with pinned barrel...

 

[smoothshooter]

Hi all,

I took my new flintlock from Veterans Arms to the range today. I put 10 rounds through the smoothbore and I learned a lot, including the fact I have to learn much more about flintlocks. I had targets out about 50 yards, standard NMLRA targets. I put 4 shots on the paper of the 10, none in the black rings.

That is not to say the musket is not accurate, the lack of accuracy was entirely me. I've been shooting for over 30 years and I'm a US Army Infantryman veteran, so I know how t shoot. However, this was the first time ever shooting a flintlock, and I could tell I was pulling up at the pan ignition. I was using .69 caliber round balls with a lubed .010 patches. 70 grains of 2FG and 3FG in the pan to prime. The first 5 shots went off well. No real issues and very little delay, but some between pan ignition and the main charge ignition. The next 5 shots got harder and harder to ignite the pan, I had a few pan ignitions without main charge ignition. I tried to swab out the barrel, but I have a .75 jag for the range rod and I couldn't get it to go all the way down the barrel. I put some moose milk on a patch and tried to swab out the barrel, but I just could not get it to go all the way down the barrel. I switched to a .58 caliber jag and used multiple patches, and I could get it down the barrel, but it didn't really clean it very well.

The other problem I had was using pre-lubed .70 - .79 caliber patches. The patches were catching on the sides of the barrel and on some shots I am sure the patch was on top of the ball, not below it. So I see I have 2 options, make paper cartridges and just put the ball and the paper down the barrel for each shot, or I can get some thicker pillow ticking, lube it and just use pillow ticking and a patch knife to cut it. Not sure which I should do, so if some of you flintlock experts can shed some light on a better way to swab a barrel and how to make a .69 round ball fit on a patch in a .75 smoothbore better, I would greatly appreciate it.

The other issue I had was the flint. Lucky for me there was someone there with a needle pick so I could get my last round fired after 8 misfires. He knapped the flint and was able to pick the hole into the powder charge and I got the 10th shot off. So I guess I need to learn how to do that. Seems like a brand new flint should last longer before it needs to be knapped. But I don't know.

That's all for now, thanks everyone. I hope that as I shoot a flintlock more, I will learn to be more accurate and I can give a better report. I love the flintlock musket that Veterans Arms made, I have to figure out how to use it better and learn more.


Scott
Blueliner67

You need to enlarge the vent, most likely. Drill it out to .060” all the way thru, then enlarge it again about 3/4 of the way thru from the outside. Can’t tell you how much to open up the outer part of the vent. Trial and error. Do it a little bit at a time over several outings.
What you want is a slight funnel shape .

 

[granth]

I'm open to any lubricant suggestions. I am using a moose milk ballistol/water solution now, works well in my 1861 Springfield.

Scott

My personal lube is a 50/50 mix of Murphy's Oil Soap and water. It keeps the fouling soft and it's very slick.

 

[toot]

try crisco always worked great for me in any type of ML and pistols

Crisco, was for verry many yrs. the go to sealer. and still is. jmho.