Range Report Veterans Arms 1740 Long Land Brown Bess

[Des52]

If you want accuracy ditch the .69 balls and go with .715 or .730 balls with a patch. I can keep almost all my shots in a 8" paper plate at 50 yards. You also have to have the same mounting point every time so practicing mounting the musket the same is the key to accurate shooting. My 2 cents for what it's worth.

 

[mark_fare]

If you want accuracy ditch the .69 balls and go with .715 or .730 balls with a patch. I can keep almost all my shots in a 8" paper plate at 50 yards. You also have to have the same mounting point every time so practicing mounting the musket the same is the key to accurate shooting. My 2 cents for what it's worth.

I have a Pedersoli Bess, and after alot of load testing, I get the same 4" groups at 50 yds with .690" rb in paper cartridges as I do with .715" rb with a .015" patch. Powder charge is 120 grns of Goex 2f.

 

[springfield art]

Hi all,

I took my new flintlock from Veterans Arms to the range today. I put 10 rounds through the smoothbore and I learned a lot, including the fact I have to learn much more about flintlocks. I had targets out about 50 yards, standard NMLRA targets. I put 4 shots on the paper of the 10, none in the black rings.

That is not to say the musket is not accurate, the lack of accuracy was entirely me. I've been shooting for over 30 years and I'm a US Army Infantryman veteran, so I know how t shoot. However, this was the first time ever shooting a flintlock, and I could tell I was pulling up at the pan ignition. I was using .69 caliber round balls with a lubed .010 patches. 70 grains of 2FG and 3FG in the pan to prime. The first 5 shots went off well. No real issues and very little delay, but some between pan ignition and the main charge ignition. The next 5 shots got harder and harder to ignite the pan, I had a few pan ignitions without main charge ignition. I tried to swab out the barrel, but I have a .75 jag for the range rod and I couldn't get it to go all the way down the barrel. I put some moose milk on a patch and tried to swab out the barrel, but I just could not get it to go all the way down the barrel. I switched to a .58 caliber jag and used multiple patches, and I could get it down the barrel, but it didn't really clean it very well.

The other problem I had was using pre-lubed .70 - .79 caliber patches. The patches were catching on the sides of the barrel and on some shots I am sure the patch was on top of the ball, not below it. So I see I have 2 options, make paper cartridges and just put the ball and the paper down the barrel for each shot, or I can get some thicker pillow ticking, lube it and just use pillow ticking and a patch knife to cut it. Not sure which I should do, so if some of you flintlock experts can shed some light on a better way to swab a barrel and how to make a .69 round ball fit on a patch in a .75 smoothbore better, I would greatly appreciate it.

The other issue I had was the flint. Lucky for me there was someone there with a needle pick so I could get my last round fired after 8 misfires. He knapped the flint and was able to pick the hole into the powder charge and I got the 10th shot off. So I guess I need to learn how to do that. Seems like a brand new flint should last longer before it needs to be knapped. But I don't know.

That's all for now, thanks everyone. I hope that as I shoot a flintlock more, I will learn to be more accurate and I can give a better report. I love the flintlock musket that Veterans Arms made, I have to figure out how to use it better and learn more.


Scott
Blueliner67

The differing results obtained using various powder charges and patching thickness really do require experimenting. You are obviously well-schooled, and best of luck! I had 2 or 3 muskets from Veteran Arms and can recommend the guy. (I recall firing the M-14 with helmet and gas mask on at the Ft. Gordon range!)

 

[cositrike]

I'm open to any lubricant suggestions. I am using a moose milk ballistol/water solution now, works well in my 1861 Springfield.

Scott

I use. Murphys oil soap neat. Good lube and keeps fouling soft

 

[toot]

do you use it on the patch, or for after cleaning up? if on patch is it not to wet, going against the powder? just courious? as I want to try it.

 

[ColonialRifleSmith]

Sounds like you are not using a suitable lubricant to keep the fouling soft.

Knapping an edge to the flint is a regular exercise and so is pricking the vent. That allows the flash into the charge reliable.
Cleaning the pan, frizzen and flint edge is important also.

I use an oiled patch; however, my guns are well used so fowling cleanse easy. Semper Fi.

 

[springfield art]

Hi all,

I took my new flintlock from Veterans Arms to the range today. I put 10 rounds through the smoothbore and I learned a lot, including the fact I have to learn much more about flintlocks. I had targets out about 50 yards, standard NMLRA targets. I put 4 shots on the paper of the 10, none in the black rings.

That is not to say the musket is not accurate, the lack of accuracy was entirely me. I've been shooting for over 30 years and I'm a US Army Infantryman veteran, so I know how t shoot. However, this was the first time ever shooting a flintlock, and I could tell I was pulling up at the pan ignition. I was using .69 caliber round balls with a lubed .010 patches. 70 grains of 2FG and 3FG in the pan to prime. The first 5 shots went off well. No real issues and very little delay, but some between pan ignition and the main charge ignition. The next 5 shots got harder and harder to ignite the pan, I had a few pan ignitions without main charge ignition. I tried to swab out the barrel, but I have a .75 jag for the range rod and I couldn't get it to go all the way down the barrel. I put some moose milk on a patch and tried to swab out the barrel, but I just could not get it to go all the way down the barrel. I switched to a .58 caliber jag and used multiple patches, and I could get it down the barrel, but it didn't really clean it very well.

The other problem I had was using pre-lubed .70 - .79 caliber patches. The patches were catching on the sides of the barrel and on some shots I am sure the patch was on top of the ball, not below it. So I see I have 2 options, make paper cartridges and just put the ball and the paper down the barrel for each shot, or I can get some thicker pillow ticking, lube it and just use pillow ticking and a patch knife to cut it. Not sure which I should do, so if some of you flintlock experts can shed some light on a better way to swab a barrel and how to make a .69 round ball fit on a patch in a .75 smoothbore better, I would greatly appreciate it.

The other issue I had was the flint. Lucky for me there was someone there with a needle pick so I could get my last round fired after 8 misfires. He knapped the flint and was able to pick the hole into the powder charge and I got the 10th shot off. So I guess I need to learn how to do that. Seems like a brand new flint should last longer before it needs to be knapped. But I don't know.

That's all for now, thanks everyone. I hope that as I shoot a flintlock more, I will learn to be more accurate and I can give a better report. I love the flintlock musket that Veterans Arms made, I have to figure out how to use it better and learn more.


Scott
Blueliner67

Thanks for your report! I bought about 3 muskets over time from Vet Arms, and have no complaints. I didn't shoot any "live", but like you trials and wish you the best of continued luck and education. Please see the newly revised book from Eric Bye, Flintlocks, their use , etc. available from the NMLRA web site. Has great over-all info for the black powder flinters. Best Regards!

 

[ColonialRifleSmith]

I have a Pedersoli Bess, and after alot of load testing, I get the same 4" groups at 50 yds with .690" rb in paper cartridges as I do with .715" rb with a .015" patch. Powder charge is 120 grns of Goex 2f.

NO! 120gr. is way too much. Here are GOEX and Pedersoli Safe Recommended Load Charts. Your musket is made in India. That's not a bad thing. I have several and shoot them all the time. Follow these SAFE load recommendations before you hurt yourself or someone else. Semper Fi.

 

[smoothshooter]

Hi all,

I took my new flintlock from Veterans Arms to the range today. I put 10 rounds through the smoothbore and I learned a lot, including the fact I have to learn much more about flintlocks. I had targets out about 50 yards, standard NMLRA targets. I put 4 shots on the paper of the 10, none in the black rings.

That is not to say the musket is not accurate, the lack of accuracy was entirely me. I've been shooting for over 30 years and I'm a US Army Infantryman veteran, so I know how t shoot. However, this was the first time ever shooting a flintlock, and I could tell I was pulling up at the pan ignition. I was using .69 caliber round balls with a lubed .010 patches. 70 grains of 2FG and 3FG in the pan to prime. The first 5 shots went off well. No real issues and very little delay, but some between pan ignition and the main charge ignition. The next 5 shots got harder and harder to ignite the pan, I had a few pan ignitions without main charge ignition. I tried to swab out the barrel, but I have a .75 jag for the range rod and I couldn't get it to go all the way down the barrel. I put some moose milk on a patch and tried to swab out the barrel, but I just could not get it to go all the way down the barrel. I switched to a .58 caliber jag and used multiple patches, and I could get it down the barrel, but it didn't really clean it very well.

The other problem I had was using pre-lubed .70 - .79 caliber patches. The patches were catching on the sides of the barrel and on some shots I am sure the patch was on top of the ball, not below it. So I see I have 2 options, make paper cartridges and just put the ball and the paper down the barrel for each shot, or I can get some thicker pillow ticking, lube it and just use pillow ticking and a patch knife to cut it. Not sure which I should do, so if some of you flintlock experts can shed some light on a better way to swab a barrel and how to make a .69 round ball fit on a patch in a .75 smoothbore better, I would greatly appreciate it.

The other issue I had was the flint. Lucky for me there was someone there with a needle pick so I could get my last round fired after 8 misfires. He knapped the flint and was able to pick the hole into the powder charge and I got the 10th shot off. So I guess I need to learn how to do that. Seems like a brand new flint should last longer before it needs to be knapped. But I don't know.

That's all for now, thanks everyone. I hope that as I shoot a flintlock more, I will learn to be more accurate and I can give a better report. I love the flintlock musket that Veterans Arms made, I have to figure out how to use it better and learn more.


Scott
Blueliner67

Get some 16 gauge brushes and some well-washed white 100% cotton Tee shirt material. Must be 100% cotton.
Cut off a piece of the cloth, wet it pretty well with spit, water, or Ballistol diluted with water to antatio of about one part Ballistol to 6 or 7 parts water. and wrap it around the brush. Shape of the cleaning patch is not important.Trial and error will teach you how bug to cut the cleaning patch and how much to wrap it around the brush.
Run the whole thing up and down the barrel several times before ditching the cloth. Repeat as necessary. Take the last and cleanest patch you ran down the bore, remove it from the brush, and wipe out the pan, underside of the hammer jaw, and pan cover on the frizzen. Then run a dry patch down the bore to dry it out if need be.
All the above should only take about 3 minutes. If you will take a small piece of cleaning patch and put it in the pan and close the frizzen down on it you will prevent dirty cleaning liquid from running down the butt-stock and streaking the wood.
I personally do most of my cleaning with 70% Ispropyl alcohol, and only apply the Ballistol when done shooting for the day to prevent rust.
You also need to get a breech plug scraper and a couple of lost patch retrieval jags, and 3 or 4 thread adapters for the various ramrod/cleaning rod attachments.
The lock may need a little tweaking to get the proper spring tension ratio between mainspring and frizzen spring. If this ratio is off much you will be plagued with poor pan ignition or short flint life. Others here can advise you better than I can on the finer points of that.
As Tenngun said, you should do something to take the shine off the barrel, which will reduce glare when shooting on sunny days. I have never used naval jelly for that, but it sounds like a good idea.

 

[RAEDWALD]

NO! 120gr. is way too much. Here are GOEX and Pedersoli Safe Recommended Load Charts. Your musket is made in India. That's not a bad thing. I have several and shoot them all the time. Follow these SAFE load recommendations before you hurt yourself or someone else. Semper Fi.

The Honourable East India Company standard issue load for percussion 0,75” muskets was 120 grains of a coarse powder. For flintlocks a little more was used to allow for priming the pan but we are safer these days and prime separately after loading. When I was using one of their original 1843 percussion muskets my standard load was 7,5 grams of Vectan Musket Powder. BTW their issue ball was 0,695”. But then they carried 60 rounds so still had to be able to load a paper cartridge down the long fouled bore.

As to whether a modern seamless steel barrel is comparable to a 180 year old hand hammer forged wrought iron one is a judgement I have to leave to the individual.

 

[Billy-by-gosh]

The Honourable East India Company standard issue load for percussion 0,75” muskets was 120 grains of a coarse powder. For flintlocks a little more was used to allow for priming the pan but we are safer these days and prime separately after loading. When I was using one of their original 1843 percussion muskets my standard load was 7,5 grams of Vectan Musket Powder. BTW their issue ball was 0,695”. But then they carried 60 rounds so still had to be able to load a paper cartridge down the long fouled bore.

As to whether a modern seamless steel barrel is comparable to a 180 year old hand hammer forged wrought iron one is a judgement I have to leave to the individual.

Very Interesting info! I had to dig up a calculator to translate grams to grains. I recall is working, there are 15.42 grains in one Gram, so multiplied out by 7,5, that yields just over 115 grains. Sound correct?

 

[springfield art]

I have an India-made, very nice quality Bess from back in the Bi-Centennial days; it's a .74 cal., after measuring it a billion times! I've liked reading the Long Land Report and the helpful hints posted.

 

[RAEDWALD]

Very Interesting info! I had to dig up a calculator to translate grams to grains. I recall is working, there are 15.42 grains in one Gram, so multiplied out by 7,5, that yields just over 115 grains. Sound correct?

I just bunged them into Google for the translations. I vaguely recall it was about 124 grains, but then I am hard of counting. Loved that musket but it has gone into good hands and it went to pay for an original Baker Rifle so it was all for the best.

 

[Ballshooter]

NO! 120gr. is way too much. Here are GOEX and Pedersoli Safe Recommended Load Charts. Your musket is made in India. That's not a bad thing. I have several and shoot them all the time. Follow these SAFE load recommendations before you hurt yourself or someone else. Semper Fi.

Those are recommended loads so dumb people can't sue. Max loads are gun specific. I have loaded well over listed loads in all sorts of firearms. If you do experiment with top load use a chronograph and think of what you are doing. The recommended loads are only guidelines nothing else.

 

[Britsmoothy]

Those are recommended loads so dumb people can't sue. Max loads are gun specific. I have loaded well over listed loads in all sorts of firearms. If you do experiment with top load use a chronograph and think of what you are doing. The recommended loads are only guidelines nothing else.

Absolutely.
Who would make a gun that explodes the moment you go over their suggested max.
They don't.
They are just covering their.... rears.

 

[Rob M.]

Sounds like that barrel needs polished inside too ... Take a look and see but it never hurts .

 

[Rob M.]

.