Range report with 777, Pyrodex P and Goex fffg

[PastorB]

Went looking for some powder a few days ago, and all they had was 777 in what they call 3f granulation. Didnt really want it, but no options. Been a hard-core "Holy Black" guy since 1977, and was happy and saw no reason to change. But since all I could get was 777, went to the range and took along a chronograph, and was sure glad I did! Used a Pietta 1858 Army and an old, wore out (but very accurate!) Pietta 1851 Navy. Here are the results, from a rest at 25 yards, 6 shot group. Cleaned barrels between each cylinder. All shooting down with round balls, .375 and .454 respectively.

1851 Navy

Pyrodex P, 23 grains, 920 fps 2" group

Goex fffg, 23 gr. 900 fps 1.5", very consistent velocity, 17fps extreme spread.

777, 23 gr. 1120 fps, 1" group, great consistency! 29 fps e.s.

Shot a second group at 50 yards, 1.5" group, not kidding!

1858 Army

28 grain pyrodex P, velocity all over from 550 fps to 720 fps, but a great group of 1.25"

35 grain pyrodex P, 960 fps, 3" group.

35 grain Goex fffg, 920 fps, 2" group, with great consistency, e.s. 24 fps.

35 grain 777, 1150 fps, 1.5" group, with great consistency.

I don't try to make my guns into "Magnums", just reporting my results. Was very impressed with the 777 velocity, consistency and accuracy, and it cleaned far easier than either Goex or Pyrodex. I've been hesitant to use substitutes for years, but I'm going back to get some more 777! Will try in my rifles (not my flintlocks) next. Will post results when I do. Both the revolvers I used today are straight stock, and have had thousands of rounds through them.

 

[Carbon 6]

Been a hard-core "Holy Black" guy since 1977, and was happy and saw no reason to change. But since all I could get was 777, went to the range and took along a chronograph,

So where did the Pyrodex come from ?

 

[PastorB]

Walmart, $1 a pound on end of season clearance years ago. Bought 20+ jugs, not passing a deal like that. My nearest place to get real black is a 2 hour drive one way, when they have it, which isn't often.

 

[Omahkapi'si]

I will be very interested in your 777 rifle results, I will be shooting it in a new Pedersoli Frontier .50 I am waiting on. Curious, what did you clean with? (hopefully doesn't start a cleaning thread...sorry)...

 

[Carbon 6]

Walmart, $1 a pound on end of season clearance years ago. Bought 20+ jugs, not passing a deal like that. My nearest place to get real black is a 2 hour drive one way, when they have it, which isn't often.

$1.00 a pound I wouldn't have passed that up either.

Did you measure the powder by weight or volume ?

 

[Kyle M.]

I've always been a Pyrodex guy mainly because I'm cheap. The only two places I know of where I can get real BP are 30-40 miles away and it's $28.99/lb. I can get Pyrodex anywhere for $15.99/lb. Volume for volume I get very similar velocities and I personally haven't had the corrosion issues some people experience. My stupid self once left my 1851 Navy wrapped in a T-shirt in the trunk of my car in the hot Ohio summer for a month after shooting Pyrodex and no rust, which is kind of amazing. Also Pyrodex RS in my experience seems to only have about 2/3 the density of Goex. I shoot 60 grains in my .54 caliber rifle and 60 grains by volume of Goex weighs pretty darn close to 60 grains. That same volume of Pyrodex RS weighs about 40 grains.

I tried 777 years ago and it just felt overpowered, I was almost afraid of it thought for sure I was going to blow up my 1860 Army. Also tried american pioneer once, boy I'll never do that again. Dad and I both had major fouling and rust issues, not saying it's no good just that I had a bad experience with it. I've never tried Blackhorn 209, Jim Shockey's Gold, or any other substitute.

 

[Omahkapi'si]

I was planning on shooting 60 grains by volume of 777 in my .50 rifle, that load should be ok?

 

[nkbj]

PastorB,
Thank you for posting. I've recently acquired some more 3F 777 just because of the results you're posting there.
When you're shooting long bullets in a revolver it makes a difference.

In a rifle, no reason to.

 

[PastorB]

All loads were by volume, using the same screw on spouts for each powder. Just used patches cut from an old t-shirt and spit to clean between cylinders, and plain old crisco over the balls as a lube. Gave the guns a thorough cleaning when I got home.

 

[Carbon 6]

Just used patches cut from an old t-shirt and spit to clean between cylinders,

Patches in a revolver ? What size ball did you use ?

 

[Zonie]

Patches in a revolver ? What size ball did you use ?

He said, " Just used patches cut from an old t-shirt and spit to clean between cylinders, "

 

[maineguy]

I have 777 3f needs cleaning after every shot. Im trying to find APP 3f it shoots clean and good groups. Use 2 guns a Lyman 50 cal great plains and 58 cal zouave

 

[jlatz]

In original percussion shotguns I have used 777 ffg for a long time. Cleanup is less daunting.

 

[59sharps]

I hate when people say they can’t get real BP. That’s BS They are just to cheap or in the wrong mind set. You can buy it pay the hazmat fee. Yea 1 less carton of cigarettes or a case or two of beer. Go the other route buy 5 lbs that cuts your hazmat fee to $4 a lb instead of $20. If you say you don’t shoot that much then you have enough for the rest of your life. BP doesn’t go bad! My 5lbs last me about 1 year maybe.

 

[Kyle M.]

I don’t see what the big deal is the substitutes do the same thing. It’s really a personal preference.

Btw I don’t smoke cigarettes or drink beer. I smoke 1-2 cigars a week and drink maybe a bottle of whiskey a year.

 

[jdw276]

I hate when people say they can’t get real BP. That’s BS They are just to cheap or in the wrong mind set. You can buy it pay the hazmat fee. Yea 1 less carton of cigarettes or a case or two of beer. Go the other route buy 5 lbs that cuts your hazmat fee to $4 a lb instead of $20. If you say you don’t shoot that much then you have enough for the rest of your life. BP doesn’t go bad! My 5lbs last me about 1 year maybe.

Hard to beat a $1 a pound for anything. Let alone BP or sub.

 

[FishDFly]

"I don’t see what the big deal is the substitutes do the same thing. It’s really a personal preference."

Geez, seems folks are always getting lectured for what they want to buy with their own money. Maybe those folks who buy other than BP, will have BP bought for them here and gifted so they can save some money.

 

[Okie Hog]

I hate when people say they can’t get real BP. That’s BS They are just to cheap or in the wrong mind set.

Last time i checked it was a free country, folks use whatever powder they want. Some users of black powder substitutes simply hate black powder. i'm one of them.

 

[mooman76]

I hate when people say they can’t get real BP. That’s BS They are just to cheap or in the wrong mind set. You can buy it pay the hazmat fee. Yea 1 less carton of cigarettes or a case or two of beer. Go the other route buy 5 lbs that cuts your hazmat fee to $4 a lb instead of $20. If you say you don’t shoot that much then you have enough for the rest of your life. BP doesn’t go bad! My 5lbs last me about 1 year maybe.

I take it you never lived in Alaska or Hawaii.

 

[Blind Dog]

Not a fan of the substitutes. They simply don’t perform in flint locks which is all
I shoot. I was impressed by the velocities the OP got with 777. What about pressures?