Range report with 777, Pyrodex P and Goex fffg

[alfakilo]

Not to my knowledge but read these forums long enough and you’ll see it written as gospel.

Isn't that the truth and the same can be said for other topics as well!! For those of us who are looking to get a good grounding in a new hobby, this can be very frustrating. When outcomes become a safety concern, we want reliable info and not somebody's opinion.

 

[Carbon 6]

Isn't that the truth and the same can be said for other topics as well!! For those of us who are looking to get a good grounding in a new hobby, this can be very frustrating. When outcomes become a safety concern, we want reliable info and not somebody's opinion.

Always error on the side of safety regardless of what anyone tells you. Safety is your responsibility.

 

[rodwha]

I get around, remember this ?



Or this ?



https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/triple-7.95090/

I don't know how it got started, but I don't think it was Hodgdon.

Ahhhh, I see we have Richard back under a new name. It will never cease to amaze me the lengths you’ll go to create some drama. Time to move on as there are much more important things these days than to play on forums looking to start problems.

 

[Carbon 6]

Ahhhh, I see we have Richard back under a new name. It will never cease to amaze me the lengths you’ll go to create some drama. Time to move on as there are much more important things these days than to play on forums looking to start problems.

No, not at all, don't know (or remember) who "Richard" is.
It's just that we as humans have a tendency to parrot things we hear without researching them, a problem endemic to forums and other social media. I was simply looking for the source, when I stumbled upon your old quotes. I didn't mean for you to take offense, I thought you were ribbing me with your comment.

Guess you haven’t been around...

Anyway, water under the bridge, moving on.

 

[rodwha]

I’m at a loss here. In post #30 the idea that it required reduction was brought up, to which I pointed out it was one of those “parroted” things we’ve seen on the internet. But I am more than good with water under the bridge...

 

[Bad Karma]

Isn't that the truth and the same can be said for other topics as well!! For those of us who are looking to get a good grounding in a new hobby, this can be very frustrating. When outcomes become a safety concern, we want reliable info and not somebody's opinion.

I’m getting better at resisting the impulse to correct perceived “wrong information“ on the interwebs... mostly because I’ve been proven wrong myself often enough. This is without a doubt the most knowledgeable group of muzzleloaders on the internet.

 

[toot]

and the beat goes on.

 

[wb78963]

I hate when people say they can’t get real BP. That’s BS They are just to cheap or in the wrong mind set. You can buy it pay the hazmat fee. Yea 1 less carton of cigarettes or a case or two of beer. Go the other route buy 5 lbs that cuts your hazmat fee to $4 a lb instead of $20. If you say you don’t shoot that much then you have enough for the rest of your life. BP doesn’t go bad! My 5lbs last me about 1 year maybe.

Using Du Pont FFFg a 1970 lot still works just fine. Compared to new GOEX the Du Pont seems to be a bit dirtier otherwise there is no apparent difference.
Real Black Gunpowder was a shelf life longer than a Collins Street fruit cake.
Bunk

 

[rodwha]

Real Black Gunpowder was a shelf life longer than a Collins Street fruit cake.
Bunk

That brings up how a lot of us have heard that at least certain substitutes just don’t handle being exposed to the atmosphere for long after it’s opened. Triple 7 is one of those powders I’ve read will degrade, often it seems within a year or so. The idea was presented by someone that maybe desiccant packs would retard this and preserve the powder. Certainly couldn’t hurt so I did just that and can say the last time I used it it had been opened for over 6 years, and one of my pistols had been loaded for that long with each going off with the same authority it seemed. Maybe it helped, maybe it didn’t, but it sure didn’t hurt anything.

 

[Crow-Feather]

Accuracy gains due to velocity increases are often a function of reduced time. Time of flight is a big factor.

I often thought that the rifle recoil made a difference. Then I saw a slow motion shot where the ball
was 5 feet from the barrel before recoil began.

 

[Blackpowderwarrior]

That brings up how a lot of us have heard that at least certain substitutes just don’t handle being exposed to the atmosphere for long after it’s opened. Triple 7 is one of those powders I’ve read will degrade, often it seems within a year or so. The idea was presented by someone that maybe desiccant packs would retard this and preserve the powder. Certainly couldn’t hurt so I did just that and can say the last time I used it it had been opened for over 6 years, and one of my pistols had been loaded for that long with each going off with the same authority it seemed. Maybe it helped, maybe it didn’t, but it sure didn’t hurt anything.

I was just wondering this exact thing. When loaded with trip7 how long could i expect the firearm to still be viable to shoot after a good amount of time

 

[arcticap]

I was just wondering this exact thing. When loaded with trip7 how long could i expect the firearm to still be viable to shoot after a good amount of time

I've never seen proof that 777 will simply degrade over time when sealed in a container and I seriously doubt that it does.
For me, proof would need to be in the form of chronograph readings that are verifiable from more than one source.
And the powder offered as proof would need to be from a container that was at least normally sealed from being exposed to humidity and the elements, and not powder that was left in a flask or loaded in a gun where it could be contaminated with lube or moisture.
It's possible that a 777 powder charge could last indefinitely after being loaded in a gun.
But any degradation could be contingent on other factors such as how much lube is in the patch, whether there's a card or unlubed wad separating a lubed patch or bullet from the powder, how clean and dry the gun is before loading, where the gun is stored, temperature fluctuations and whether moisture can get past the projectile or enter through the nipple flash hole.

If a person knows that their powder charge of any type would be left in the gun for a long time, they can ram some wax paper over the powder charge, or an unlubed wool wad or card.
And keep the nipple covered.
That's not a guarantee but it lessens the chances that any powder will be affected by humidity, condensation or lube migration from the patch or bullet.
Generally powder degradation is something that people don't worry about very much unless they're hunters or concerned about self-defense.
But maybe more folks should be aware that if they leave their guns loaded for a long time that they should take some precautions.

When folks talk about powder degradation, I think they mean that the powder can weaken a little bit, but not saying that they think that the powder will totally go dead to where it won't ignite at all.
Lube or moisture may be able to contaminate part of a powder charge and alter its strength, but that doesn't mean that the powder won't fire at all.
Although not igniting is always a possibility.
We don't really know if 777 is more or less susceptible to degradation or contamination compared to other powders.
BP is said to last forever, but the truth is that it can become contaminated very easily if left in contact with enough of some runny lubes which can result in a very weak load.
I would assume that 777 can too.
But we don't really know which powder will more easily become contaminated since every circumstance can be different.

My short answer would be that 777 doesn't go bad as long as it's sealed in the container or as a load in a gun that helps to keep contamination away from it.
But the common practice is to shoot the load out of the gun at least every 3, 6 or 12 months based on a person's individual preference and previous experience with their gun.
The longer that any powder charge is left loaded in a gun just increases the chance that the load will need to be pulled if it goes bad.

 

[Blackpowderwarrior]

I've never seen proof that 777 will simply degrade over time when sealed in a container and I seriously doubt that it does.
For me, proof would need to be in the form of chronograph readings that are verifiable from more than one source.
And the powder offered as proof would need to be from a container that was at least normally sealed from being exposed to humidity and the elements, and not powder that was left in a flask or loaded in a gun where it could be contaminated with lube or moisture.
It's possible that a 777 powder charge could last indefinitely after being loaded in a gun.
But any degradation could be contingent on other factors such as how much lube is in the patch, whether there's a card or unlubed wad separating a lubed patch or bullet from the powder, how clean and dry the gun is before loading, where the gun is stored, temperature fluctuations and whether moisture can get past the projectile or enter through the nipple flash hole.

If a person knows that their powder charge of any type would be left in the gun for a long time, they can ram some wax paper over the powder charge, or an unlubed wool wad or card.
And keep the nipple covered.
That's not a guarantee but it lessens the chances that any powder will be affected by humidity, condensation or lube migration from the patch or bullet.
Generally powder degradation is something that people don't worry about very much unless they're hunters or concerned about self-defense.
But maybe more folks should be aware that if they leave their guns loaded for a long time that they should take some precautions.

When folks talk about powder degradation, I think they mean that the powder can weaken a little bit, but not saying that they think that the powder will totally go dead to where it won't ignite at all.
Lube or moisture may be able to contaminate part of a powder charge and alter its strength, but that doesn't mean that the powder won't fire at all.
Although not igniting is always a possibility.
We don't really know if 777 is more or less susceptible to degradation or contamination compared to other powders.
BP is said to last forever, but the truth is that it can become contaminated very easily if left in contact with enough of some runny lubes to where it will result in a very weak load.
I would assume that 777 can too.
But we don't really know which powder will more easily become contaminated since every circumstance can be different.

My short answer would be that 777 doesn't go bad as long as it's sealed in the container or as a load in a gun that helps to keeps contamination away from it.
But the common practice is to shoot the load out of the gun at least every 3, 6 or 12 months based on a person's individual preference and previous experience with their gun.
The longer that any powder charge is left loaded in a gun just increases the chance that the load will need to be pulled if it goes bad.

Thank you for the detailed response brother. Im contemplating finally trying out my triple 7 today if weather permits.

 

[arcticap]

When hunting, many folks seal their muzzle with tape, a balloon, a finger cot or rain guard device to keep snow and rain out of the barrel.
Plus it can keep out mud and other harmful stuff.

 

[rodwha]

I’ve used quite a bit of Triple 7 and have never noticed any degradation, but as arcticap pointed out that without a chronograph one couldn’t really say for sure.

My father gave me 3 containers of Pyrodex, and one or two were opened. They were so old that the price tag listed the cost at <$10, and it no doubt resided in his reloading room, a separate room with a window unit that only runs when he’s in there, not that often, and in Oklahoma where it’s humid enough in the summers. Those powders all seemed to have plenty of authority. I mostly used it to just break in my new rifle as I don’t like it (still have some RS just sitting in the corner).

 

[Carbon 6]

I've not had any problems with 777 aside from the crud ring. Pyrodex can clump if exposed to moisture but it takes a year or two, just bust up the clumps and keep shooting. Black MZ degradrades badly, if left loaded. Black powder stores the best IMO.

 

[rodwha]

I would venture to say that in the case of having a loaded powder degrade, I’d certainly prefer it having started out as an energetic load using an energetic powder that could still at least have a little zip to it still. I mean the 15% reduction, supposedly gives it standard powder performance, though from handguns it seems to still well outperform standard Goex and the like. From a handgun using WFN bullets such as I am you’ll still get a nice hole even at low velocities.

 

[Vtmountaindeerhunter]

I have been shooting 777 fff in my BP revolvers 1858 1860 61 and have reduced my loads after a while. 35 grain 777 in 1858 makes a loud Crack not the regular boom. Very powerful stuff , like you said consistently works easy clean up. But not the same as goex by any means.

 

[Stantheman86]

I use powderinc and I was able to score 25lb of 1F and 10lb of 2f at the peak of the "shortage"

That said, I shoot Pyrodex and 777 all the time through my revolvers. Especially my "range blaster" brass frames. It works well , and it's a no brainer to pick up a couple cans when I'm out since I pass a Dunham's twice a day.

I never got this hate for people using subs. Like what , people are "gatekeeping " black powder guns now......if you shoot anything other than Black Powder you're not a serious shooter apparently

In the 1890s , "semi smokeless" powder came out and all the other stuff, the Army tried a new powder in the 45-70 in the 1890s and it was apparently very similar to 777. Who cares, if it works , it works.

 

[Stantheman86]

I've never seen proof that 777 will simply degrade over time when sealed in a container and I seriously doubt that it does.
For me, proof would need to be in the form of chronograph readings that are verifiable from more than one source.
And the powder offered as proof would need to be from a container that was at least normally sealed from being exposed to humidity and the elements, and not powder that was left in a flask or loaded in a gun where it could be contaminated with lube or moisture.
It's possible that a 777 powder charge could last indefinitely after being loaded in a gun.
But any degradation could be contingent on other factors such as how much lube is in the patch, whether there's a card or unlubed wad separating a lubed patch or bullet from the powder, how clean and dry the gun is before loading, where the gun is stored, temperature fluctuations and whether moisture can get past the projectile or enter through the nipple flash hole.

If a person knows that their powder charge of any type would be left in the gun for a long time, they can ram some wax paper over the powder charge, or an unlubed wool wad or card.
And keep the nipple covered.
That's not a guarantee but it lessens the chances that any powder will be affected by humidity, condensation or lube migration from the patch or bullet.
Generally powder degradation is something that people don't worry about very much unless they're hunters or concerned about self-defense.
But maybe more folks should be aware that if they leave their guns loaded for a long time that they should take some precautions.

When folks talk about powder degradation, I think they mean that the powder can weaken a little bit, but not saying that they think that the powder will totally go dead to where it won't ignite at all.
Lube or moisture may be able to contaminate part of a powder charge and alter its strength, but that doesn't mean that the powder won't fire at all.
Although not igniting is always a possibility.
We don't really know if 777 is more or less susceptible to degradation or contamination compared to other powders.
BP is said to last forever, but the truth is that it can become contaminated very easily if left in contact with enough of some runny lubes which can result in a very weak load.
I would assume that 777 can too.
But we don't really know which powder will more easily become contaminated since every circumstance can be different.

My short answer would be that 777 doesn't go bad as long as it's sealed in the container or as a load in a gun that helps to keep contamination away from it.
But the common practice is to shoot the load out of the gun at least every 3, 6 or 12 months based on a person's individual preference and previous experience with their gun.
The longer that any powder charge is left loaded in a gun just increases the chance that the load will need to be pulled if it goes bad.

I just burned up half a can of Pyrodex P that I opened in 2008. And I made no real effort to store it properly, it's been in hot, humid tool sheds. The can was closed properly and all the rounds went off and with the proper power.

I left a pair of .36 brassers loaded with Pyrodex for over 3 months , all the chambers fired, no problems