I shot my 36 caliber flintlock blue ridge today. What a beautiful looking gun. I have about 300 rounds through it. Today I meticulously loaded to solve a problem with accuracy.I shoot .350 ball and .015 patch lubed with wonderlube. It feel smooth going down no snags and feels to have the correct resistance It will not start without a ball starter. I clean after every third shot. both sides of the wet patch followed by both sides of a dry patch.I use 1/3 peroxide 1/3 Murphys oil soap 1/3 alcohol to clean. The two ramrod pipe screws holding in the barrel are tight. I started with 15 grs of 2f goex 3 shots increased to 45 grains in 5 grain increments. Ignition is fast and consistant. Just about same group with all loads. 6" at 25 yards? sometimes vertical stringing sometimes horizontal stringing. At 40 grains I got a perfect triangle and about an 8" group. I went to 3F started the procedure all over again. Same deal 6" at 25 yards. I have a .45 and .58 cap lock and a .50 flintlock. As the grains increase on these guns the group gets smaller then eventually gets bigger. All three of these guns will shoot 1" and under at 25 yds. The .50 flintlock is one big hole with three shots. This .36 would be great for squirrel hunting. I am not allowed to use the .50 in PA with squirrels any more. I shot many a squirrel in the head with that gun. This is why I bought the .36 caliber. I have learned so much on this site. You guys are terrific. Can anybody figure this out and let me know what I am doing wrong. I hate to get a new barrel. This one seems OK and these guns now are out of sight with the cost. Thankyou
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I have the same rifle in .36 caliber. The only load that got me 1-in groups at 50yards was a .018 patch, a .350 ball, and 40gr of FFFg. Anything below 40gr with that patch didn't give me squirrel hunting accuracy.
So, maybe try the .018 patch and see where it takes you?
So, maybe try the .018 patch and see where it takes you?
matt denison
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I would suggest that if shooting for groups that you either clean every shot or shoot a fouler and then shoot for group with a dirty bore for consistency sake. Your gun should be capable of much better than it is showing you at 25 yards. After 300 rounds it should be broken in - or ?not? How do the spent patches look?
paulvallandigham
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When shooting shot gun at moving targets, you focus on the target- NOT the front sight.
With any rifle, your FOCUS MUST stay on that front sight, and NOT "Sneak a peak" at the target at the last second! The mantra for both handgun and rifle shooters has to be, " Front Sight, Front Sight, Front sight......"
Do NOT expect great accuracy with such a small bore rifle using FFg powder. We use, and almost all recommend using the faster burning FFFg powder in these small bore rifles. The faster burn upsets these very small diameter balls better, and quicker, than any amount of FFg powder can. Make sure you are shooting soft lead balls- not balls cast from lead alloys!
Unless you have Dutch Schoultz's BlackPowderRifleAccuracy system, you probably don't know what a good patch is.
Find an experienced BP shooter to help you with this gun. Ask him to watch how you load and clean the gun, and advise you on what you could do to be more consistent.
Don't let personal pride cost you more time and money. On many occasions when I have had either a sick rifle, or sick ammo, I have asked fine shooter I know to shoot my gun, to see if its me, or the gun or the ammo. They enjoy shooting up my ammo; I enjoy their help, and its a huge savings in time and frustration for me.
My friends also have been kind enough to tell me when they see ME doing some thing wrong that is contributing to poorer groups. These friends have been of immense help with both modern suppository guns, and with my black powder rifles.
Try it.
With any rifle, your FOCUS MUST stay on that front sight, and NOT "Sneak a peak" at the target at the last second! The mantra for both handgun and rifle shooters has to be, " Front Sight, Front Sight, Front sight......"
Do NOT expect great accuracy with such a small bore rifle using FFg powder. We use, and almost all recommend using the faster burning FFFg powder in these small bore rifles. The faster burn upsets these very small diameter balls better, and quicker, than any amount of FFg powder can. Make sure you are shooting soft lead balls- not balls cast from lead alloys!
Unless you have Dutch Schoultz's BlackPowderRifleAccuracy system, you probably don't know what a good patch is.
Find an experienced BP shooter to help you with this gun. Ask him to watch how you load and clean the gun, and advise you on what you could do to be more consistent.
Don't let personal pride cost you more time and money. On many occasions when I have had either a sick rifle, or sick ammo, I have asked fine shooter I know to shoot my gun, to see if its me, or the gun or the ammo. They enjoy shooting up my ammo; I enjoy their help, and its a huge savings in time and frustration for me.
My friends also have been kind enough to tell me when they see ME doing some thing wrong that is contributing to poorer groups. These friends have been of immense help with both modern suppository guns, and with my black powder rifles.
Try it.
I appreciate all the help I can get and I thankyou Sir as well. I have been shooting muzzleloaders since 1974. I have probably killed at least a bushel basket full of squirrels with my .50 flintlock TN poor boy. They were all head shots. I hit 35 empty shotgun shells in a row with that .50 offhand at 25 yds. The only reason I stopped at 35 was because my friend missed his 35th. I can shoot. I was at the range today coaching our State police. I am just missing an important part of what this gun needs and it's got me spinning.
Blackpowdersmoke
40 Cal.
That is STRICTLY your personal opinion!!!paulvallandigham said:
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paulvallandigham
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Its all opinion, my friend. I didn't mean any offense. I just have met shooter after shooter who tells me his patches are "OK", but when I examine them, there are clear indications( He does not recognize) that the patch is NOT providing a proper seal. I seem to have spent much of 40 years teaching other shooters how to read spent patches correctly. When I bought Dutch's materials, I was delighted to see SOMEONE had finally done a good job describing a " good patch" in print.
Its still the cheapest coaching lesson you can buy for $25.00 or less. What it also gives you, that I didn't realize until I returned to shooting some of my modern rifle, is a system of analysis that also works with modern guns.
The best way to learn about spent patches is to hold them in their full, three-dimensional form in your hands, with some more experienced shooter pointing out the critical, but small, sources of information that are there to see, when you know what you are seeing, and what its telling you. Most shooter don't.
I am used to this problem, as the same lack of knowledge affects peoples' ability to SEE tracks- whether human or animal-- and read them. I have been reading tracks for more than 57 years, and am as astonished that other people see and perceive so little, as they are that I see and perceive so much.
If learning to read spent patches required a PHD, I would make no comment at all. But if a country lawyer can learn to do it, I think most anyone can- provided they have a good mentor to teach them.
Hint: Look at the little black DAGGERS that show up on a spent patch where soot is deposited on the fabric as gases are trying to escape ahead of the PRB by blowing up the grooves of the rifling. The DAGGERS come forward of the brown or black Ring that appears on the spent patch. Check the length of all the daggers. Gravity makes an undersized ball/patch set down in the bottom of a rifle barrel at rest. If your patch/lube combination is not adequate to provide a good gas seal, or if the ball is too small for the bore, There will be a slightly longer dagger where gases are escaping thru the groove at the top of the barrel, if you aren't having a good enough seal.
If you see a " Long dagger", the next thing to do is mark the next patches you load down the barrel with a marking pen, so that you can determine with some accuracy WHICH groove is creating the long dagger. If its not the top groove, NOW THAT would be a good reason to replace the barrel! :thumbsup: :hatsoff:
Its still the cheapest coaching lesson you can buy for $25.00 or less. What it also gives you, that I didn't realize until I returned to shooting some of my modern rifle, is a system of analysis that also works with modern guns.
The best way to learn about spent patches is to hold them in their full, three-dimensional form in your hands, with some more experienced shooter pointing out the critical, but small, sources of information that are there to see, when you know what you are seeing, and what its telling you. Most shooter don't.
I am used to this problem, as the same lack of knowledge affects peoples' ability to SEE tracks- whether human or animal-- and read them. I have been reading tracks for more than 57 years, and am as astonished that other people see and perceive so little, as they are that I see and perceive so much.
If learning to read spent patches required a PHD, I would make no comment at all. But if a country lawyer can learn to do it, I think most anyone can- provided they have a good mentor to teach them.
Hint: Look at the little black DAGGERS that show up on a spent patch where soot is deposited on the fabric as gases are trying to escape ahead of the PRB by blowing up the grooves of the rifling. The DAGGERS come forward of the brown or black Ring that appears on the spent patch. Check the length of all the daggers. Gravity makes an undersized ball/patch set down in the bottom of a rifle barrel at rest. If your patch/lube combination is not adequate to provide a good gas seal, or if the ball is too small for the bore, There will be a slightly longer dagger where gases are escaping thru the groove at the top of the barrel, if you aren't having a good enough seal.
If you see a " Long dagger", the next thing to do is mark the next patches you load down the barrel with a marking pen, so that you can determine with some accuracy WHICH groove is creating the long dagger. If its not the top groove, NOW THAT would be a good reason to replace the barrel! :thumbsup: :hatsoff:
Good observations my friend!the only thing I can add to that is the amount of lube used on the patches.It has to be consistent, and each gun is different.Learn what it likes and dont' try to fix it or change a thing once you find it.
A few months ago my tac driver went to shotgun patern and I was ready to give it up.The problem was that I prepared a batch of patches with too much lube ,and couldn't figure out why it was all over the place until I run out of patches and used a few left from the previous batch.ALL the patches were cut from the same yard of fabric and the same lube, the only difference was the amount of it.Some guns may not notice the difference , some ,like mine, are day and night.
A few months ago my tac driver went to shotgun patern and I was ready to give it up.The problem was that I prepared a batch of patches with too much lube ,and couldn't figure out why it was all over the place until I run out of patches and used a few left from the previous batch.ALL the patches were cut from the same yard of fabric and the same lube, the only difference was the amount of it.Some guns may not notice the difference , some ,like mine, are day and night.
Thank you Sir. No offense taken. You are so accurate about the power of observation. I loved your story of tracking. I used to take out the boy scouts and show them sign. I would say let's not say "what's happening" let's see what's happened. Thanks again. I will take all you said and apply it. I will get it, but it is a real challenge. Thanks again
:grin: Its amazing isn't...how could any of us function without "systems" and "formulas"...oh wait, I know...just go to the range and get actual hands on experience, then go hunting and get actual field results...you know, kind of like our forefathers didBlackpowdersmoke said:
:grin:
hanshi
Cannon
Agreed. I don't care for formulas and prefer to just "do". Works for me.
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guns are very individual gadgets- each one will reach a different way to variations in load, ball diameter, patch thickness and so on. (the phase of the moon and Avagadro's number is probably in there, too)
having said that, I agree with Paul that Dutch Schoultz' monograph is money very well spent, and I have and will continue to commend its use to anyone who'll listen.
just one guy's opinion...
having said that, I agree with Paul that Dutch Schoultz' monograph is money very well spent, and I have and will continue to commend its use to anyone who'll listen.
just one guy's opinion...
Joel/Calgary
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There's a few more of us around who hold that opinion. I don't use Dutch's system directly, but I DID take the principles he used in developing it and the experience he recounts to greatly shorten the process of establishing what works FOR ME with my ideosyncracies and preferences.MSW said:
Regards,
Joel
Gordon Jabben
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I had the same problem and like others have said, it was too much lube on the patch. Please let us know if this was the problem. Thanks
I took my dial caliper to Walmart and checked out their blue pillow ticking. It measured .018 thick. I bought enough to make some patches. I traced a nickel on the cloth and cut out some patches with a pair of scissors.used some .018 patches from Walmart and 30 grains of 3f powder. I used wonderlube on the patches unwashed as is. I got a 1.5" group of 3 shots at 25 yds.Two were touching. I got about 2" at 50. I tried 35 grains at 25 yds and the pattern opened back up to about 8". I used just enough lube to slick up the patch on the barrel side and the coarse side toward the ball, but not an excessive amount. I am going to wash some of the patch material so it will be a little thicker. I am then going to play with the powder. Mabe 27.5 to 32.5 grains of the 3 F. I think that the small calibers are more finicky. 5 grain changes may be too much. I will keep you guys posted. I was so excited to fire that first shot dead center and .5" high at 25 yards. Yhanks for all the help. I still have to try the wd40 lubed patches.
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