I can understand cap fire only but as always they should be treating their gun as if it's loaded because sure as anything, sooner or later someone will fire and find out their gun was loaded.
range rules
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Muzzleloading is a slow shooting sport as it is...that's why even if a range were available here I would continue to shoot the woods, alone or with a buddy (three's a crowd). I make the rules, I shoot when I want. With one buddy its reasonable, with 2 or more one guy will ALWAYS end up wanting to go check or hang a target before "I'm" ready! And when they are shooting centerfire (especially .22 semiauto) they don't understand "wait till I shoot this last shot". Ain't fair! They can shoot a brick up to my 20 shots and then wanna leave before I'm ready.
The range I go to is a members only. No RO, except 2 weeks prior to deer season. There is a Club officer or two around at least once a day. They enforce the rules when there. We have a flag system. If somebody goes down range a flag is posted a few yards down range. I have only seen a few people there at any one time and all have been highly respectful of others and the rules.
If this issue was so understood and w/o doubt, why are we discussing it?
When the red lights are blinking and the bells ringing at our club, which denotes a "closed range", no one even touches their gun....that way there's no doubt and no chance of error.
Any ambiguity on the firing line whatever the cause, can not be tolerated......Fred
When the red lights are blinking and the bells ringing at our club, which denotes a "closed range", no one even touches their gun....that way there's no doubt and no chance of error.
Any ambiguity on the firing line whatever the cause, can not be tolerated......Fred
Yes I agree and find it very hard that the people posting on this topic do not seem to be able to grasp what Iam saying, it is after all a very simple thing to understand, but then perhaps they are trying to relate their own informal range times to this discussion .
1.range closed:- cap off or foul 2.load 3.fire 4.cease fire ro checks all firearms are unloaded 5 no handing of firearms or ammunition 6. target setters /scorers forward .
So what the f... is hard about that to understand , someone who can tell the difference between the days weather conditions or the seasons and the range instructions should be able to understand that even if not at first .And yes Iam seriously takeing the piss at ya alls ability to come to grips with range ett. so maybe ya all should keep it simple then 1. cold :- do what you want 2 hot :-cut loose eeehaa!! :rotf:
1.range closed:- cap off or foul 2.load 3.fire 4.cease fire ro checks all firearms are unloaded 5 no handing of firearms or ammunition 6. target setters /scorers forward .
So what the f... is hard about that to understand , someone who can tell the difference between the days weather conditions or the seasons and the range instructions should be able to understand that even if not at first .And yes Iam seriously takeing the piss at ya alls ability to come to grips with range ett. so maybe ya all should keep it simple then 1. cold :- do what you want 2 hot :-cut loose eeehaa!! :rotf:
ChrisHarris
Sharp Shooter
The range is either open or closed. It's black and white. No gray area.
Closed = don't touch the guns.
I got ZERO tolerance for people who think they are above the rules and even LESS then ZERO for people who think they are above the rules at a shooting range. I'll be in your face so fast, your darn head will fly off!! :slap: :cursing: I don't care who you are.
Range closed = hands off the guns. PERIOD
Pretty frickin' SIMPLE.
If there is confusion about how to initiate the closed/open procedures, then the club and membership needs to hold a meeting and establish rules. Write it down. Post it. Read it. Follow it.
Closed = don't touch the guns.
I got ZERO tolerance for people who think they are above the rules and even LESS then ZERO for people who think they are above the rules at a shooting range. I'll be in your face so fast, your darn head will fly off!! :slap: :cursing: I don't care who you are.
Range closed = hands off the guns. PERIOD
Pretty frickin' SIMPLE.
If there is confusion about how to initiate the closed/open procedures, then the club and membership needs to hold a meeting and establish rules. Write it down. Post it. Read it. Follow it.
Exactly right range standing orders apply to free time casual practise or what ever and standing orders to work with the particular match requirements and rules when shooting a match . :thumbsup: ( the period to cap off IS NOT A GREY AREA BUT THE FIRST STEP AFTER THE RANGE IS
CLOSED but before the command to load is given ) NB Iam only talking about B/P shooting and matches
CLOSED but before the command to load is given ) NB Iam only talking about B/P shooting and matches
O.k. got curious and started googling a few muzzleloading organizations formal range commands.
NRA - There is a 15 minute "preparation period" prior to a match/sustained relay in which guns can be handled, items brought to the line, etc. but no shooting is allowed. Popping caps and flashing pans is also not permitted.
NMLRA - Its either hot or cold. No in between.
MLAIC - No popping caps or pan flashing before the "open fire" signal is given. Couldn't find anything about a prep period. Didn't look that hard, either.
NZPA - only one I found with a non-shooting preparation period that allowed popping caps/pan flashing.
Granted, not an exhaustive search. It pays to know what rules you're shooting under. And there's always "local Iowa rules".
NRA - There is a 15 minute "preparation period" prior to a match/sustained relay in which guns can be handled, items brought to the line, etc. but no shooting is allowed. Popping caps and flashing pans is also not permitted.
NMLRA - Its either hot or cold. No in between.
MLAIC - No popping caps or pan flashing before the "open fire" signal is given. Couldn't find anything about a prep period. Didn't look that hard, either.
NZPA - only one I found with a non-shooting preparation period that allowed popping caps/pan flashing.
Granted, not an exhaustive search. It pays to know what rules you're shooting under. And there's always "local Iowa rules".
rafterob
62 Cal.
I have only experienced the Hot or Cold system. But I can accept that other methods may prevail at another range. Every match I have attended where shooters from outside of the host club are present, has a safety meeting before the match. That way all shooters are well aware of the rules.
jamesthomas
70 Cal.
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1601phill said:
It doesn't happen at my range. The range is either hot or cold with No Grey "CAP POPPING OR FOULING TIME" and it is a grey area. Cap popping is as someone has already mentioned a good way to get someone shot. If the range is Hot then you can pop a cap to clear the nipple.
ROT read my posts slowly till you fully understand what I have said . THERE IS NO GREY AREA .THE RANGE IS CLOSED (THAT'S HOT) BEFORE THE COMMAND TO LOAD IS GIVEN A COMMAND IS GIVEN FOR CAPPING OFF OR FOULING (DURING THIS TIME THE SHOOTERS MAY NOT LOAD WITH BALL )then the command to load is given , prey tell how the hell do you come up with the theory that some one is going to get shot doing this ?THE R/Os HAVE AT THIS POINT IN TIME FULL CONTROL OF THE RANGE AND EVERY ONE ON IT .
SSAA ,QPSUA ,PA .and Iam talking about matches , I realy don't care what you guys do ,but when some one states our procedures are going to get some one shot it realy gets me heated up , the process is too put everybody at the same stage, to eliminate Bubba Gump rocking up to the line with a loaded gun , it keeps the whole shooting line under control .When competing under some one elses rules then then their rules are followed .
We're talking about formal matches, too. We have the same goals. Fair, safe competition for everybody.
O.K. I found the SSAA rule book. Couldn't find the other two but I'm assuming the PA one is similar to the NZPA one I found earlier.
Your rules really aren't all that different from ours.
I went thru the range commands and they're pretty much standard. I did not see any formalized command sequence for fouling before the SNAP (or any) event though so I'm guessing it is set by the head RO for that match and not the governing body. No different than any of our timed fire events.
I did find this one interesting:
4.3.11 Priming and capping shall only be carried out at the firing line. All capping off for muzzle loading firearms must be down range. It is not allowed for persons to cap off into the ground immediately in front of themselves. Any person observed by the Range Officer breaking this Rule will be removed from the range firing line immediately and forfeit the event.
Most US cap lock shooters would be kicked off your range before they got a shot off.
As has been stated before its best to know the rules you're shooting under.
And to keep it on topic for the OP, did you ever find out why they yelled at you for the live fire?
O.K. I found the SSAA rule book. Couldn't find the other two but I'm assuming the PA one is similar to the NZPA one I found earlier.
Your rules really aren't all that different from ours.
I went thru the range commands and they're pretty much standard. I did not see any formalized command sequence for fouling before the SNAP (or any) event though so I'm guessing it is set by the head RO for that match and not the governing body. No different than any of our timed fire events.
I did find this one interesting:
4.3.11 Priming and capping shall only be carried out at the firing line. All capping off for muzzle loading firearms must be down range. It is not allowed for persons to cap off into the ground immediately in front of themselves. Any person observed by the Range Officer breaking this Rule will be removed from the range firing line immediately and forfeit the event.
Most US cap lock shooters would be kicked off your range before they got a shot off.
As has been stated before its best to know the rules you're shooting under.
And to keep it on topic for the OP, did you ever find out why they yelled at you for the live fire?
Congratulations you found one rule book , I don't have the gear to scan and post the rules for the different matches but can you see now what I have been saying ?
Here are the commands for one match .
FOUL- to initialy foul the bore etc.
LOAD-allow time for this to be done and observe
CAP or PRIME
READY- listen for negative replies-firearms are
being cocked
FIRE- firearms may only be shouldered on the
command FIRE
CEASE FIRE-
These are the commands for SSAA RENDEZVOUS for long arms matches, just an example that I have at hand .
Here are the commands for one match .
FOUL- to initialy foul the bore etc.
LOAD-allow time for this to be done and observe
CAP or PRIME
READY- listen for negative replies-firearms are
being cocked
FIRE- firearms may only be shouldered on the
command FIRE
CEASE FIRE-
These are the commands for SSAA RENDEZVOUS for long arms matches, just an example that I have at hand .
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I understand the rules....I just do not understand why ...if the range is clear enough to cap off, it must be clear an safe enough to shoot a live round,,having actually :redface: "capped off" a loaded gun :shocked2: I just think the range is or should be hot or cold...way less confusion..UNLESS ...on your range everyone caps then loads then fires,all at once then repeat..where I've shot..once the range is hot you cap load fire at will...I believe the thinking someone could get shot during the "capping" period is, if they cap off a loaded gun..because evidently range is open for capping only..so some see that as a ? ..
jus saying..you are not wrong we jus do things different,,we're pretty simple..so hot cold is easiest for us
jus saying..you are not wrong we jus do things different,,we're pretty simple..so hot cold is easiest for us
jamesthomas
70 Cal.
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No need to yell Phill, I got it.
rafterob
62 Cal.
I think I have discovered the basis of all this controversy, having googled SSAA and come up with Southern Softball Athletic Association. Apparently all those drunk softball league guys need more supervision on the range than us serious muzzleloader guys.
meanmike8665
45 Cal.
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I have shot on many shooting ranges both public and private and I don't worry so much when the range is closed, but I have had the stuffing scared out of me at the way people handle muzzleloaders when the range was HOT!! I have gotten up from a bench and had a rifle pointed at me and who can remember all the pistol shooters sweeping the line when carrying their guns back to the line. BTW, those are LOADED guns! So, you can be upset when someone handles a gun when the range is closed, but be careful when it's HOT.
Michael
Michael
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