Rate kits on difficulty: TVM, Chambers, Kibler, Pecatonica...

[Eric Krewson]

Kids are brainwashed here, it's sad but true. Fortunately all my circle of friends have raised their kids to work hard, take responsibility for their life and taught them how to use firearms from an early age.

 

[Kansas Jake]

I suspect the different colleges at most universities do carry some political bias. One is probably going to get a more liberal view in say a liberal arts major compared to a business major or agricultural major where you will hear a more conservative view. I doubt most animal science majors hold political views similar to someone majoring in women’s studies. I don’t think kids are brainwashed but are taught to think and question.

How many of us have so called higher education? I suspect quite a few and we aren’t exactly the pillars of liberal thinking.

 

[Zonie]

Let's all stop with the political/educational talk and get back to talking about how hard it is to build a muzzleloader from a kit.

 

[Henry2357]

Also considering a kit from Kibler , ( although after the last few posts I had to go back up to the top to see if I was still in the right thread .) Anyway the only thing I not crazy about Jim’s kits is the lack of other models. I am sold on his skills and his process, but Jim, more models......

 

[apachesx2]

Haven't written in a while had a year and a half home emergency now solved... I had just barely started a TVM kit after a year and half to get back into it signed up for a week long kit class got to see other students kits everyone mentioned here. From what seen every rifle had its own set of problem solving problems unique particular build and not necessary from the particular kit and it greatly help having an experience builder looking over your shoulder... Overall the Kibler's took a lot less time to getting them functional... But you end up with non- custom length of pull 13 5/8 inches, a British Lock (they were our nemesis from before the revolutionary war till after the war of 1812), and the CNC machine is too perfect it doesn't have magical flow of an original or well build flintlock of today... Being of German/Irish heritage growing up with flintlock season in the 1970's in Pennsylvania doing a career in the military stationed in Germany studying German hunting history wanted to build a rifle that a German immigrant master in Pennsylvania would build... Have a hard time believing a german mindset would use a British lock design. Compared to a German lock flash pans are much more efficient than the rounded British designs... Yes the British locks were used throughout the colonies they were cheap at the time the Chinese locks of the ERA... Just my 2 cents I'm sure I will get blasted here but get tired of hearing the Kibler locks are so period correct for the ERA... They may well have been the majority but not the only lock used at the time...

 

[Pete G]

Kibler supplies English locks because that is the proper style for the kits he produces. If you want germanic lock then buy a germanic kit.

 

[bigted]

Sounds like a Kibler 40 or 45 cal southern kit is in my future.

 

[oreclan]

IMO, the question has been asked and answered.

I don't think Clay Smith's kits have been mentioned? Not as easy as Kibler's; however a very complete set of parts. Has a historically accurate precarved stock and appropriate lock. He occasionally offers a slightly flawed stock at a bargain price. Prices are good.

 

[M. De Land]

Can I get a contact for a Kibler kit and can you get them with Green Mtn. barrels? I just finished a Track kit this winter in .45 cal,36 inch 13/16s barrel. Had to cut the barrel mortise back a bit to get the flash hole to line up with middle of pan and the tang mortise was to big for the lolly pop tang.Barrel channel fit well though and lock mortise was positioned correctly. Ram rod hole was straight. It is light, handy little rifle. I'm pleased with how it turned out and remember a .45 was usually plenty big for our fore father east of the Mississippi.
This was an iron furniture So. Mtn Rifle kit. The iron furniture is more work but I prefer the look to brass.

 

[TFoley]

You get a Kibler kit from Mr Kibler. Just how hard can that be?

 

[MTCossack]

Can I get a contact for a Kibler kit and can you get them with Green Mtn. barrels? I just finished a Track kit this winter in .45 cal,36 inch 13/16s barrel. Had to cut the barrel mortise back a bit to get the flash hole to line up with middle of pan and the tang mortise was to big for the lolly pop tang.Barrel channel fit well though and lock mortise was positioned correctly. Ram rod hole was straight. It is light, handy little rifle. I'm pleased with how it turned out and remember a .45 was usually plenty big for our fore father east of the Mississippi.
This was an iron furniture So. Mtn Rifle kit. The iron furniture is more work but I prefer the look to brass.

Here's the Kibler page, with its contact info. They're quick to respond and very helpful:
Contact Jim Kibler or Katherine Werre at Kibler's Longrifles

The kits don't have options for barrels other than the different calibers, because they are already fully inlet for the barrels provided, which are swamped.

 

[MTCossack]

I don't think Clay Smith's kits have been mentioned? Not as easy as Kibler's; however a very complete set of parts. Has a historically accurate precarved stock and appropriate lock. He occasionally offers a slightly flawed stock at a bargain price. Prices are good.

I love looking at Clay smiths guns. I didn’t think about his kits. How much work they require compared to say, a Jim Chambers kit?

 

[M. De Land]

You get a Kibler kit from Mr Kibler. Just how hard can that be?

I was hoping for a contact phone number but sorry I asked, must be against some rule or other . Forget it I'll find out for myself!

 

[Henry2357]

I was hoping for a contact phone number but sorry I asked, must be against some rule or other . Forget it I'll find out for myself!

Finding out yourself is the best way anyway.. A lot of good info on his 2 websites. Plus ordering info.
Kibler's Longrifles. And. For builders of contemporary flintlock long rifles

 

[stewart.leach]

I had the honor of coaching a friend as he put together a Kibler Colonial in 54 caliber. The accuracy of the machine work on the wood was amazing. A little nibbling and easing to set the breech and buttplate. All the predrilled screw and pin holes were perfectly placed. The most demanding tasks were draw filing and sanding the barrel, and sanding, whiskering and sanding the stock.

My buddy was patient, and got good results on the barrel with Laurel Mountain Forge browning agent and my humidity tube. Burlap does a good job smoothing the rust, and acetone to degrease.

Wood finishing was accomplished with three applications of diluted LMF maple stain, three coats of sealer, and several coats of finish. The results are lovely.

I wish Mr. Kibler would make up these kits for lefties......

 

[Col. Batguano]

There ar a lot of threads here about tools, work benches, vices etc. Do a search to read a few of them. Most important though, is the DESIRE to build it, and the domestic support to carry it through.

You might ask Jim what his web thicknesses are. If you go with 1/16" in the back, and 5/32" in the front, achieving a slim looking LR will be a LOT easier. You might even trim it to 1/32" in the back, and 1/8" in the front if you're feeling bold. So many kits come with 1/4" webs throughout, and pretty much all of them look overly beefy. That's ok on a "manly" gun like a Hawkin plains gun, but not so ok on an eastern woods type LR. Since you're going with a C-weight barrel, there's a LOT of barrel there so a thinner web is even that much more important.

 

[YJake]

I’m probably not certified to comment on this, but I’ll give it a go.

I’ve done several Pedersoli kits and general gunsmithing/reloading for years. I’m also in the middle of a Kibler Kit. I’d say the Kibler woodwork is actually easier than the Pedersoli. I had to inlet the lock for proper barrel fit and make other stylistic changes using chisels in the Pedersoli. The Kibler stock is very well done out of the crate and things just look “correct”. The metal parts of the Kibler have needed more attention than the Pedersoli, but it’s been minor overall.

Here’s my Brown Bess I got as a Pesersoli kit, I’ve had waaaay too much fun with it. I was patterning it with #5 shot and it actually does quite well outo 25 yards.

-Jake

 

[user 34300]

Out of the 20 or so ML's I have built four were Kibler kits. I have not done a Chambers. I mostly scratch build. I have done parts sets from several suppliers. The major problem is that the precarve stocks are often a mess. Two consecutive ones from a supplier were unusable junk. It is a very frustrating and expensive problem. I prefer to work from a plank because there is no troubleshooting and fixing bad inletting. I would without reservation endorse the Kibler kits. The SMR is long and lean. THe Colonial is a serious hunting rifle. Both fall together with no major inletting to do. The castings are the best available. The new locks are the best produced in the modern era.

 

[Shiloh1944]

There has been some good advice given on this post that I wish I had known when I did my first ever high-end kit. In my defense I purchased my kit from an individual who had purchased it from TOTW but then decided he wanted to do something different. The kit, a Kit Carson Hawken half stock in .54 caliber, was as new and I purchased it at a substantial discount, but I am here to tell you it isn’t the kit for the first-time builder. Thankfully the good Lord blessed me with enough skill to help me muddle through and though I made some mistakes along the way they were not so bad I could not correct them. If I had it to do it over again I believe I would go with the Kibler Colonial rifle kit. Inletting the lock on the TOTW kit was pretty difficult and drilling the holes in proper alignment to secure the trigger plate was more difficult than I had anticipated. None of the holes in either the wood or metal parts were predrilled. You had to drill and tap them. My finished rifle isn't the quality of those done by experienced builders but thankfully neither did it turn out to be a $400 rifle from a $1200 kit.

 

[M. De Land]

Here's the Kibler page, with its contact info. They're quick to respond and very helpful:
Contact Jim Kibler or Katherine Werre at Kibler's Longrifles

The kits don't have options for barrels other than the different calibers, because they are already fully inlet for the barrels provided, which are swamped.

Thank You very much! Just what I was asking for! Wow, the holes come pre drilled in the Kibler, not in the Track kit! I also had to switch tangs and move the barrel back in the precut mortise to get the flash hole ahead of the breech plug so as not to have to make a cut out in it. The lock and barrel mortise were well cut though and left no gaps at final fitting.