I've wondered if there is or was ever a reason for the different rates of twist in rifled barrels. I know that faster rates are considered to be best for cast bullets and slower rates for patched round balls. I believe that all my rifles are either 1:48 or 1:66. I shoot patched round balls in all mine. But I wonder how someone originally picked the numbers? 1:48 makes sense with 48" being exactly 4' I suppose but 1:66? Just wondering.
rate(s) of twist chosen
- Thread starter tom in nc
- Start date
Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:
52Bore
40 Cal.
- Joined
- Dec 14, 2016
- Messages
- 683
- Reaction score
- 989
Most likely, trial & error as to what the maker preferred…
IMO- it was the British and their agreement with engineering genius Sir Joseph Whitworth in the 1850’s - 4 years of trials/experiments/testing (400yd inclosed range) to establish the 52bore (0.451”) 1:20 twist that set the tone for twist rate to bullet length, into a science.
later in the 19th Century: Greenhill’s formula was a mathematical equation to estimate optimal twist as well.
IMO- it was the British and their agreement with engineering genius Sir Joseph Whitworth in the 1850’s - 4 years of trials/experiments/testing (400yd inclosed range) to establish the 52bore (0.451”) 1:20 twist that set the tone for twist rate to bullet length, into a science.
later in the 19th Century: Greenhill’s formula was a mathematical equation to estimate optimal twist as well.
Comfortably_Numb
The Evil Mike Brooks
Most old ml's have one twist in the length of the barrel.
Original Jaegers had one twist to match the barrel length. Plenty of 30” or shorter barrels.
Didn’t see the Evil One’s post until after posted mine.
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2009
- Messages
- 13,225
- Reaction score
- 7,567
Yo Tom.
Some good reading about the mid 19th Century US military experiments.
https://archive.org/download/cu31924030757474/cu31924030757474.pdf
Some good reading about the mid 19th Century US military experiments.
https://archive.org/download/cu31924030757474/cu31924030757474.pdf
Maybe one of the Hawken experts can chime in, but I have seen it written that they would give customers whatever twist rate they desired, as long as it was 1-48”. Though there is a lot of information out there about the Hawken brothers and it hard to know what to believe.
Last edited:
Most simple rifling machines of the 1700s to early 1800s were not at all adjustable and quite a bit of work went into making the wooden screw more than 4’ long and perfectly laid out and running smoothly in the headstock. So, small time shops probably had one twist for all calibers. And it turns out that 1:48 can work from .45-.54 calibers pretty well.
Also even our predecessors probably figured out the relationships between ball size, velocity, and spin rates needed for accuracy.
Also even our predecessors probably figured out the relationships between ball size, velocity, and spin rates needed for accuracy.
There are videos on Youtube under the name Homemade History, by a guy from Germany showing how he built his own rifling bench. Although I'll never need a rifling bench, I guess, the videos are very interesting. He speaks English.
GOOD read Bud, THANKS
Johnny Tremain
Silversmith in training
1/60 thru 1/72 are Optimum for round ball.
If your buying a production barrel, you are going to get what the manufactured decided was best.
1/48 is an all around twist. They do it that way so you can use what you want. Cept you results may very.
I use a 1/60 rice barrel. Because its swamped, stress relieved, deep radius cut with .012 grooves.
Which is way better than any production barrel.
Most production barrel at button cut, which is the shallowest and cheapest way to make a barrel.
If your buying a production barrel, you are going to get what the manufactured decided was best.
1/48 is an all around twist. They do it that way so you can use what you want. Cept you results may very.
I use a 1/60 rice barrel. Because its swamped, stress relieved, deep radius cut with .012 grooves.
Which is way better than any production barrel.
Most production barrel at button cut, which is the shallowest and cheapest way to make a barrel.
Comfortably_Numb
The Evil Mike Brooks
I doubt the Hawken Bros made their own barrels. I'm sure they were made in barrel mills out east.
You could very well be correct about, but it still seems many were 1-48”.
Comfortably_Numb
The Evil Mike Brooks
1 in 48 was pretty standard back in those days.
52Bore
40 Cal.
- Joined
- Dec 14, 2016
- Messages
- 683
- Reaction score
- 989
Thought I was going to learn something new..
Had to search to find out..
Probably can be used with Cannons.
Indeed. I find it interesting that for much of it, history only tells us what the authors told things as they saw it. Not necessarily how it actually was. We can get somewhat of the overall facts, but there’s still room for error.
Tom in nc, generally speaking, a slower twist will accommodate round balls best. 1:60 to 1:66 are common.
A 1:48” twist can shoot both conical and round ball okay, but is not always great at either.
A faster twist is best suited for conical.
There’s also depth of the rifling to consider.
Last edited:
Sean E Bug
32 cal. or less
- Joined
- Nov 28, 2021
- Messages
- 273
- Reaction score
- 364
it is all about stabilizing the ball. larger balls can have slower twist rates than smaller ones. small calibers like 25 and 32 are great at a faster pitch like 1:32 while something like a 4 bore can go as slow as 1:144. but 1:48 and 1:66 works good for most calibers between 40 and 60.
Comfortably_Numb
The Evil Mike Brooks
Yes, that is all true for today, but it was much different back in the day.
.
