Re-lining an old Pennsylvania rifle?

[kilbuck]

Whitetail hunting in my area of northern Michgan takes me into second-growth woods and dense swamps - no place for the ten-pound Hawken that I've been lugging around in the past. I have an old Pennsylvania half-stock rifle whose 34", .42 caliber barrel (1" octagonal) I've considered shortening to 26" and having re-bored and re-rifled to .50 caliber.

Several possible complications might arise in this modification: (1) there are two holes in the barrel near the breech (from an add-on sight?) whose depth I don't know. (2) the underrib is attached with what appear to be studs or rivets anchored in the barrel, how deep I don't know.

Enlarging the bore might cut into any of these holes. Re-boring and re-lining sounds like a more feasible way of accomplishing the same thing. I'll be grateful for any shared thoughts on this proposed operation, including the names of experienced barrelsmiths in Michigan, Ohio or Indidana who can do the work.

 

[Russianblood]

I think you'd be better off just buying a new barrel and having it fitted to the stock.

Is the rifle an original or a reproduction?

 

[TN.Frank]

For what you'd spend modifing this guy you could probably just buy a modern flintlock or percussion repro. Check some of the "4 sale" web sites and I'd bet you can pick up a nce muzzle loader for a decent price.

 

[LRB]

If you decide to have it lined, Bob Hoyt has the best rep, although I think he is in PA., and be prepared to wait a while.

 

[kilbuck]

This is an original rifle, so your idea has good merit.

 

[TN.Frank]

I wouldn't mess with an original rifle, it's too valuable to screw up with new parts and such.

 

[kilbuck]

TN, that would probably be the sensible thing to do. However, something about hunting with a 150-year-old rifle is getting under my skin.

 

[John Taylor]

I wouldn't mess with the old barrel if it still shoots. Put a new GM barrel on it for hunting and set the old barrel aside so you will have it to put back on someday. It's OK to fresh out an old barrel but to cut one off is a no no. You may need to make a breach plug to fit you rifle even if you bore out the old barrel or reline it. TJ's has a hammer forged 50 caliber liner with a 1 in 48 twist, 7 lands and grooves that is 11/16 on the OD. Sold by the inch at $3.45. I use quite a few of his liners for those dangerous guns that have a hole at both ends of the barrel.

 

[TN.Frank]

Ok then, here's what I'd do if I just had to hunt with that gun. I'd leave the barrel it's original length, 34" isn't all that long when you stop and think about it so keep it that length. Then, have it freshed out to 45 cal, that'll keep it as close to the original caliber as you can get and a .440 round ball will kill a deer if you do your part so just work for a close shot and place the ball where it'll do the most damage. JMHO, YMMV. :hmm:

 

[kilbuck]

I read you, John, on the sacrilegious act of shortening a barrel. Many times I've groaned when I saw a stock cut off, or holes drilled in the side of a receiver, uncouth stock refinish, etc. If this rifle were totally original, or extremely valuable, I'd never give first thought to modifying it.

I may abandon the project altogether, for reasons in addition to preservation. Fitting a new barrel gets hairy: it has a slight taper, breech to muzzle. And making a new breech plug sounds very pricey.

Just for my enlightenment, though, do you have to remove the rib, sights and underlug in order to rebore for an oversize liner? Is the liner sweat-soldered in? Do re-lined muzzleloading barrele generally shoot well if the job is done correctly?

I appreciate your input.

 

[kilbuck]

Frank, this would be a good compromise - adequate caliber, keep the gun close to original. No, 34" isn't all that long of a barrel, though it's still heavier and slower-handling than what I'd like to hunt with. Will have to keep on scouting other options. Thanks for your thoughts.

 

[paulvallandigham]

The liners are made of modern steels, and are either sweat soldered in, or epoxied into the barrel. You generally don't have to remove the underrib, but the Breechplug is taken out. The liners shoot great! I think this is the best solution to save an old barrel.

 

[fatboy]

Bobby Hoyt does great work he lives west of me outside of Fairfield ,Pa but you will wait but the quallity of work is worth while

 

[kilbuck]

Hunter - would you care to post contact info for Mr. Hoyt (phone, address)? This is a Pennsylvania-made Pennsylvania rifle, and he might be familiar with the maker, what to expect under the hood. Thanks

 

[Zonie]

It's just my opinion but the idea of using an old original rifle to hunt with or to shoot on a regular basis sounds really neat! Sort of giving new life to the cast aside items of our forefathers.
On the negative side though, not only the barrel needs to be considered, but one needs to keep in mind that things break. Things like the sear, tumbler and mainspring on one of these old guns cannot be easily replaced. Even the screws are often bastard sizes that no modern screw will fit.

If your gun was one of the popular ones like a old 1842 Springfield or other Martial arms which some parts are available for, I would say "Go for it!" but even for locks which were common like the Goulcher, replacement parts are few and far between.
This is one of the reasons I have resisted buying an old "beater" to use the hardware to build a new gun. Although the idea of doing this really appeals to me, my practical side is beating back the whole idea.

 

[kilbuck]

This is a James Bown rifle, made in Pittsburgh, probably after the Civil War. The lock is London-made and appears to be in excellent condition. But if it breaks, I'll surely wish I had considered your opinion more carefully.

When I was a kid, we used to shoot these "antique guns" all the time without concern about parts. But that was when you could buy all the Civil War carbines you wanted at $50-75 apiece. Thanks for bringing me back into the twentyfirst century.

 

[paulvallandigham]

The only parts likely to break would be the v-springs, and possibly the cock. YOu can retemper all of them in your own oven and that would relieve any stress from them being hardened but not tempered, which would make them brittle and likely to break. Just put the parts on a flat cookie sheet, and put it in the oven at 450 degrees( use an oven thermometer to check the actual temperature) for at least an hour. Two hours is often better. Then turn the oven off, and let the parts cool slowly with the oven over night. Put the frizzen in also, although it is not likely to break at all.

 

[John Taylor]

I ream all my barrels in a lathe with a spendle hole of 1&7/16". If the barrel will fit and run center with the rib then I leave it on. This is not likely with your barrel. I do not use a piloted drill for the finish cut so I can keep the clearance to .002" with a reamer that has oil pumped through it. I do not use epoxy or solder, not enough room to get it in between the liner nad barrel bore, I use loctite. I have not put any liners in muzzle loaders, chosing to rebore most of the time and new barrels the rest of the time. TJ's has 3 muzzle loading liners and 38 liners for cartridge guns so he is not getting a lot of calls for muzzle loaders. Some info on liners, the hammer forged liners are the smoothest bore you will ever see. Button liners will be second in smoothness and cut rifling will need to be broke in with a lot of shooting ( not so smooth ). If you decide to rebore your barrel the size may be limmited by the size of the breach plug. Some of the old barrels used a breach plug just big enough to get a clean thread in the barrel. A liner could be put in just short of the breach plug but would be a little harder to do this way. The problem with running a liner all the way through and threading it for the breach plug would be trying to line the top flat to the plug again.

 

[pathfinderifh]

I have an old half stock rifle from Ohio that appears to be from the mid 1800's built along the the lines of a Stackhouse style gun. The bore was awfull and rather than upset history, I had a barrel made for it. Gave the barrel maker my dimentions, and then transfered all the measurments to the new barrel for the lugs,ribs,ect. Shaped the breach plug to the original and put the sights where I could see them!
If I ever decide to sell the gun, the original barrel will go back in and I can build another one around the newer barrel.

 

[fatboy]

I'll look for his # and address hopefully I can find it and I will send you a pm