Real Hawken or not?

[warbike39]

How long is the barrel?

Appears to be 33 3/4 inches.

 

[Grenadier1758]

Is the barrel tapered or straight? What is the measurement at the breech and at the muzzle?

 

[warbike39]

Appears to be 33 3/4 inches

 

[warbike39]

The barrel seems to be straight not tapered. I measured it today and it had a slight deflection in the middle where it seemed a fraction smaller but both ends appear identical

 

[warbike39]

Barrel length?

 

[rich pierce]

So, how many offers have you received so far?

 

[warbike39]

So, how many offers have you received so far?

Several Rich

 

[rich pierce]

Several Rich

Beware any lowballs trying to find fault. Some collectors work in teams.

 

[warbike39]

Beware any lowballs trying to find fault. Some collectors work in teams.

It's a sneaky world out there anymore isn't it?

 

[rich pierce]

It's a sneaky world out there anymore isn't it?

Yes indeed. Maybe it’s always been sneaky. I’d peruse recent auction sales of J&S and S Hawken rifles focusing on their local squirrel rifles for comparison. Here’s one. Lot Detail - (A) EXTREMELY SCARCE & HIGH CONDITION SAMUEL HAWKEN PERCUSSION RIFLE.

 

[warbike39]

Yes indeed. Maybe it’s always been sneaky. I’d peruse recent auction sales of J&S and S Hawken rifles focusing on their local squirrel rifles for comparison. Here’s one. Lot Detail - (A) EXTREMELY SCARCE & HIGH CONDITION SAMUEL HAWKEN PERCUSSION RIFLE.

Yes I have done some research and also sent some photos to Rock Island Auctions

 

[beardedhorse]

It doesn't surprise me that the four squirrel rifles all had different sights. I found my old photos of a rifle re done in the Hawken shop in 1846. "Old Blackfoot's" rear sight is perpendicular to the barrel and not angled as seen on so many Plains rifles. It's barrel was refreshed and the full stock converted to half stock. New breech and lock and steel furniture. The conversion from flint to percussion was done at Bent's Old Fort in Colorado. The butt had an odd looking, uncomfortable crescent, not the pleasing curve of most Hawkens. Could the barrel on your squirrel caliber rifle have been cut down at the breech and re fit with drum and new or original tang? Is the tang one piece or hook breeched? The flash shield is intriguing.
Any idea of what the A C C on the nose cap means?

 

[warbike39]

From looking closely at the barrel I do not believe it was ever cut down or modified. I do not know what the initials meant but when I found the rifle it had a very old paper band around it that said Hays Kansas written on it. The small powder horn also has a single letter carved into it.

 

[Albert53]

From looking closely at the barrel I do not believe it was ever cut down or modified. I do not know what the initials meant but when I found the rifle it had a very old paper band around it that said Hays Kansas written on it. The small powder horn also has a single letter carved into it.

There is going to be the Hawken Classic at the Daniel Boone home in August , there will be some of the best Hawken experts there is at the event , Bob Browner, and the current owner of the Hawken Shop will be there along with a few more , your rifle could be verified then.

 

[sheriff john]

Wonderful rifle and history. Thank you for sharing. Old sheriff's input - get an appraisal of value, be sure it's covered by insurance, and keep it in a secure location. The more people that know about it, the greater chance of theft.

"I know where there's a rare gun.....hanging on his wall ...." Nay-Nay!

 

[KC Clem]

I've done deep searches through every house I've ever owned and all I ever found was termites.

 

[warbike39]

I met a guy that bought an old house and the living room was sinking. After cutting a larger access into the crawl space to pour a concrete pad to set posts and jack it up he climbed inside this larger hole. Inside the tiny crawlspace he found a completely intact and clothed human skeleton with a pistol that had been in its hand. Was he hiding there from something and got stuck or possibly shot and died? Not sure what they did after that.

 

[KevinC]

What an amazing story , and what a fun thread!
Thank you for sharing it all.
Truly what dreams (for guys like us) are made of.
Ill never forget seeing "Jeremiah Johnson" (on the big screen) for the first time. Then followed that with the book "Crow Killer", based on the life of John Johnston.
All of it ruined me for life.
-Just curious, what ever became of that Conestoga?

 

[warbike39]

What an amazing story , and what a fun thread!
Thank you for sharing it all.
Truly what dreams (for guys like us) are made of.
Ill never forget seeing "Jeremiah Johnson" (on the big screen) for the first time. Then followed that with the book "Crow Killer", based on the life of John Johnston.
All of it ruined me for life.
-Just curious, what ever became of that Conestoga?

I tried to sell the Conestoga wagon but like this rifle people wanted to offer me a hundred bucks for it so I donated it to a Museum there in New Mexico. When I went to visit it, someone had stolen it before it was even displayed.
Dave

 

[William Sublette]

I think the trading posts were done and gone before I was 10 years old. The receipt books I found from them were from the 40s and 50s. One on the jicarilla apache reservation, one on the Navajo reservation near Shiprock and one down toward Chinle n.m
My son did find two ball Mason jars full-of silver conchas hidden in the root cellar, a Kachina doll, a small tourist bow and arrow set and some trinkets from the 50s. We still have the silver conchas and the Kachina doll, the rifle, both powder horns, the small powder measuring device and the ball mold.
D. I lived and worked in that country for years and explored it.

RL Cox Fur in Albuquerque does a lot of business with native communities of the SW. Buying pottery, and selling fur, leather, and stuff for cultural purposes.

They have ledger books going back to early 1900s.

There might be some cross references In their records, with that trading post.