Realistic accuracy expectations

[Pete G]

Most of the time I’ve had four inch groups or so with a smoothie, but will get a flyer but still any shot would turn Bambi French.

Does that mean he runs away

 

[tenngun]

Does that mean he runs away

No, it comes from Sir Walter Scott. In Ivanho one of the English, the joker Wamba, complained that the Normans even conquered food. Good English swine becomes pork on a Norman’s plate, cattle become beef and deer become venison.

 

[SDSmlf]

Most of the time I’ve had four inch groups or so with a smoothie, but will get a flyer but still any shot would turn Bambi French.

Does that mean he runs away

I always tell my French associates that I collect their old military guns because they have only been dropped once and are in great shape..... all kidding aside, the French military museum in Paris is something to see. Even my bride enjoyed it.

 

[tenngun]

Well I make more French jokes then Homer Simpson, but this wasn’t one. I’ve been saying ‘turns it french’for years,don’t really remember where I picked it up but it was in reference to wild deer becoming venison.
We say venison about deer these days at one time it referred to any game meat.

 

[Stantheman86]

There are a million factors , for example I have a beater Pedersoli Springfield musket that comes alive with 777 and .575 Minies lubed with Ox Yoke bullet lube.

Also a Euroarms .54 Mississippi that rings the 200 yard 12×12 steel all day with .533 sized Minies and a 60 gr charge of 2f. Reduce or increase the charge and you're out of the sweet spot and accuracy suffers.

I shoot mainly for "combat accuracy" I dont sit behind sandbags and use pre measured and weighed charges, I tried that , it's not as fun as going to the firing line with 50 cartridges in a cartridge box , shooting them all into softball sized groups, cleaning the rifle and leaving.

 

[Carbon 6]

I don't really shoot for groups anymore with a muzzleloader. I shoot for hits.
What ever my target is, I expect to hit it.
Even when I do shoot a group, I'm Aiming at a specific target and expect to hit it.

 

[Sunkmanitu Tanka]

I will start to say that my gun offers better accuracy than I am able to get out of it... The human factor in shooting is probably what impairs accuracy the most. For years I try to make a once a week trip to the gun range. Most often to shoot off hand targets at 50 meters. I have always kept notes of my shooting sessions (temps, light conditions, wind, etc.) even copying shot placement of my targets in logbooks and keeping an excel file with graphics of the results... I noticed already a long time ago that there is a curvature in the results I get. There is always a period that I start to shoot better and better, but after some time the results start to go down! I recon it is comparable with what many sportsmen experience... You can have a period of good results but you often struggle to keep up with the best results you had... Your level of condition, stress or feeling relaxed, all count also for the result you 'paint' onto your target. And then there is the occasional 'offday' or the one you unexpectedly perform very well ... 18 months ago I shot my best target ever: 96 out of 100 ... Since then I am struggling to get even close to that same result ... So my realistic expectations are really closer to around a 88 to 90 out of 100 in lieu of 96 out of 100 points ....

 

[Sun City]

This works for me from 60 yards.

.54 Hawken Flintlock by Sharps Man, on Flickr

 

[tenngun]

1. 
   

 

[tenngun]

Top was .54 70 grains 3f from solid rest fifty yards, bottom is smoothie table supported arms .62 65 grains 3f on a tow nest/wad. Both guns put deer in the pot with quick clean kills.

 

[tenngun]

Patches .54 smoothie at twenty five yards arms supported on table, ought to make Bambi burgers. I don’t think to many competition would let me shoot that way.... and I sure can’t do it off hand.

 

[Darkhorse]

I think most rifles have the ability to shoot better than 1.5-2.0" groups at 50 yards but I don't think most shooters have the same ability. It takes practice and effort to go beyond "good enough".
When I work up a load I'm after groups like this or real close, if not I keep trying. I know the rifle will do it. I know I can do it. Done it before, can do it again. .54 or .40 doesn't matter I expect the same thing from both.
This is realistic accuracy. And it's attainable with proper form, concentration and much practice.

 

[MSW]

kind of off the original intent of the post, but the best non shooting accessory you can buy is Dutch Schoultz' method. Here's a link:

http://blackpowderrifleaccuracy.com/

 

[brazosland]

OP, what you should look for is consistency of group size. Once you are able to shoot the same size group, with the same rifle and load, then you know that the human variable has been largely tamed.

My muzzleloading accuracy pales in comparison to my ability with my modern weapons. I am a small arms instructor and among other things my cadet teams have won 9 college national titles. Most of them I start from absolute scratch...

Group size matters not. Consistency first.

There are two reasons for a lack of accuracy on target. The first is the loose nut behind the trigger, the second is the mechanical accuracy potential of the firearm. When you get to where you can shoot the same size group every outing, then start worrying about tweaking load or gun.

 

[tenngun]

What can your gun do at its peak best load combination in the best weather..... how well can you see with traditional sights.... how’s your best load going to do in misty weather at near freezing.... how well can you hold with out a rest.... how well will your paper punching load do on Bambi or Bulwinkle.... hows it do when the gods of accuracy smile or laugh at you.

 

[Carbon 6]

Plinking is a great teacher. I don't load for accuracy when I plink but I usually hit where I want. I use to spend hours plinking. When I had a friend along it usually turned into a competition. Great practice and learning.

 

[sussexmuzllodr]

Accuracy is defined hitting what you are aiming at.
It does not always happen.
Sm

 

[hanshi]

Both photos are of me separated by 40 years. On the left, if it's visible, is a typical target at 60 yards from around 15 years ago. At this point I could still pretty much do this on demand. It's 10 shots with a .45 flint mostly offhand. Now it is no longer possible for me without super luck and an angel.

 

[Darkhorse]

I’ve been shooting my longrifle more lately, and have gotten to the point that I can expect 1.5”-2” groups at 50 yards from a rest.

I noticed some sharp improvement from some of the powder/charge/patch changes I experimented with, but I still don’t know how much of the improvement is coming from proper load or from becoming more accustomed to shooting a flintlock.

My question is, what group sizes (from a rest) do you guys expect routinely? I’m just trying to decide whether to keep chasing a magic load or to focus more on shooting technique.

In a word "Both". In order to allow your rifle to shoot it's best then you must shoot your best. Perhaps better than you do now. The bench shooting is very important but must be done right. Step one is building a good rest. I use sandbags front and rear, the rear bag has ears to set the butt in. Build your best most solid rest and take careful aim at the target with an unloaded gun. Your sights will be a bit wobbly so work on your rests until they settle down and hold on the bull. When you get it all settled down and holding on the target gently squeeze the trigger. Now look at your sights and they will be off target. This is where your bullet will hit. Work on your rests some more until the sights remain on the bull after you pull the trigger. You can keep a finger on the barrel to help hold it in place and down when the rifle recoils.
You should be sitting with your shoulders square to the target and rifle not with your shoulders turned at an angle. Exception would be a deep crescent butt plate.
Don't worry about where the ball hits right now. Just concentrate on making consistent shots. You must learn to conquer any flinching or you will never shoot to your best ability. Concentrate hard on the front sight.
Once you are shooting tighter groups than now then start working on your load. Only change one thing at a time such as lube. Keep your targets for reference.
I keep a wooden flint in one of my rifles all the time and practice dryfiring daily. For hunting I will accept a 1.0" group at 50 yards. I seldom see a deer beyond 65 yards.
Never stop trying to improve your shooting form and just keep looking for that magic load and you will find it.

 

[Darkgael]

I shot this for one of our contests. Lyman GPR flintlock at 100 yards.

Pete