Really new at this

[Runner]

Two options. Roundball and "Loaded for Bear" loads to use on the larger critters, or conicals.
At muzzleloader velocities on large critters, you do not want expansion. You want penetration. Assuming you plan to stay inside normal muzzleloading ranges, the list is pretty long. The Lee Target Minnie wrapped in paper or teflon cast out of about a 19-1 lead to wheel weight mixture are accurate, cheap, and will punch thru a whole lot of critter! Paper patched or wrapped, they are capable of very good accuracy over fullhouse hunting loads. My barrel shoots them just fine without patching them, but several folks have said they are too loose in some barrels without. The trashcan lid like nose profile and sharp shoulder should allow it to both drive deep and still transfer energy well. The only downside is that they are a fairly close range design because of the nose. 320 grains in 50 caliber, so it is kind of in the middle recoil wise between the larger conicals and the roundball. They work just fine on deer too!

 

[Slamfire]

I have a CVA with a 48" twist, as are most T/C barrels. It shoots prbs well, and the Buffalo 245 grain Ballets nearly as well. I've not tried the shorter Power Belts or R. E. A. L. s in it as I've another rifle better suited to conicals. But I'd try the 245 Power Belts in a 48" twist, and the 250 grain R. E. A. L.S, As well as the Buffalo Ballets, if I was you. You can't tell how your rifle will shoot, until you try. :wink:

 

Hi to all
I have just returned from the range, and have answered a few of my own questions. Thought you might be interested.
I had picked up a pack of 405gr. Powerbelts, and gave them a try.
Loaded in front of 90gr. Pyrodex RS and a musket cap. I see no reason to experiment much further. The average of 5 three shot groups at 50 yards is 1.625 inches center to center. I can't see the open sights well enough to do any better than this. I estimate the MV to be right around 1425 fps, with a ME of about 1800 ft.lb. As I will have to limit myself to a maximum of a 75 yard shot with the open sights, this is all I will ever need for anything I plan to hunt with this gun.
I still have the option of going to 100gr. of powder, which will increase the ME a bit more if I need it. The gun grouped into 2.25" with the 100gr. charge. Still "minute of moose".
Tomorrow, I will head back to the range and try 2F black powder to see if there is any difference.
Thank you all for the help
Twees

 

[paulvallandigham]

I have no idea what you expect to hunt with that rifle, but no deer requires you to use a 405 grain bullet to be killed. The PRB is all that is needed to take any whitetail that walks the land.

As to the sights and your eyes, use a jeweler's file to open the rear sight notch so that there is the equivalent of the width of the front sight on each side of the front sight as it appears in your rear sight notch. The extra width allows you to see the front sight better in poor light conditions. That will help your Old Eyes see that front sight better, and allow you to make more precise shots at longer ranges.

As to your load, you are using way too much powder. You don't need to use more than 70 grains of powder , and should work up a lighter powder charge load for target practice. If you are only shooting at 25 and 50 yds to practice, use a round ball and reduce the charge to about 35 grains. No recoil, very little noise when fired, and can be very accurate.

ME is totally irrelevant to consider when hunting. The round ball, and even those power points loose velocity rapidly, and its the energy they deliver on target that is important. You might want to test those power points for penetration-- you choose the medium-- because some members are reporting that they break apart on impact. They apparently are made very brittle by the adding of antimony to the alloy. A Pure lead ball will mushroom, but retain 90% or more of its weight as it travels through the chest of a deer. If you are starting with a .50 or .54 caliber hole entering the deer, and a round ball will mushroom and expand to be .80-.90 caliber before it exits, it cuts a huge primary wound channel, and causes much bleeding, both internal, and, if the shot placement is low enough, out onto the ground.

I think you need to consider these other factors before settling on a given load. Just because you got lucky to find a good load for those power points, does not make them the best choice to use in your gun, or for game. You should not need to use a musket cap( expensive) to ignite real black powder. Use a regular #11 cap for that purpose, and save the money. Cast round ball are also much cheaper than those commercial slugs. Black powder can be bought a lot cheaper than the subs now cost, and you can clean them easily with soap and water, or even using a window cleaner with ammonium in it.

 

As I said in a previous post, I am planning to use this on Wild Boar, Bear (black & brown), and Moose. I hear what you are saying, but truthfully I am not convinced that a 170gr. PRB is what I want or need for an animal that can go close to a ton, or can put me in a box. What I want is penetration, and I can't help but believe that a 405 gr. bullet will out penetrate a PRB. Are they are great for deer? Yes. For big Bear, Boar, or Moose, I think not. I have already taken all the above with this bullet in an inline M/L, and based on my past experience they worked just fine. They didn't shatter, and one passed completely through a broadside moose at 30 yards. I don't think a PRB over 70gr. of powder is up to the task. As for costs and practice, I have always done my practice shooting with the load I hunt with. That's the only way to learn what the load will really do. I have also found that the cost of ammo is really irrelevant when you figure the total cost of the hunt. I, for one, would rather spend a few more buck on ammo, then be responsible for wounding an animal due to ammo failure. Just my opinion, yours may differ.
I truly hope that I have not stepped on any toes.
Twees

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

Mike's got it right, only I use 3Fg so that I only have 1 type of powder to buy. 70 grains of 3Fg, an overpowder card, a .018 pre-lubed pillow ticking patch and a .490 ball should also lead to tight groups...my rifle is a 1 in 48" twist and I can hit a single seedless grape at 25 yards with it if I do my part!

That being said, I also like to hurl huge chunks of lead at high speeds too! That same charge above will result in a 370 grain T/C Maxi-Ball being pushed along at 1347 feet per second at the muzzle. At 100 yards, this will put em all into a clenched fist group wise, shot with a slight wind. For superior penetration for the boar and moose, the conicals (MAXI'S) are hard to beat! This is with a Lyman Trade Rifle, .50 cal caplock, 28 inch stock barrel with the primitive sights that come with the gun. Adjusted the dovetailed rear sight with a hammer & block of soft pine when I first got the gun, haven't sighted it in since :wink: .

Dave

 

[Slamfire]

As I said in a previous post, I am planning to use this on Wild Boar, Bear (black & brown), and Moose. I hear what you are saying, but truthfully I am not convinced that a 170gr. PRB is what I want or need for an animal that can go close to a ton, or can put me in a box. What I want is penetration, and I can't help but believe that a 405 gr. bullet will out penetrate a PRB. Are they are great for deer? Yes. For big Bear, Boar, or Moose, I think not. I have already taken all the above with this bullet in an inline M/L, and based on my past experience they worked just fine. They didn't shatter, and one passed completely through a broadside moose at 30 yards. I don't think a PRB over 70gr. of powder is up to the task. As for costs and practice, I have always done my practice shooting with the load I hunt with. That's the only way to learn what the load will really do. I have also found that the cost of ammo is really irrelevant when you figure the total cost of the hunt. I, for one, would rather spend a few more buck on ammo, then be responsible for wounding an animal due to ammo failure. Just my opinion, yours may differ.
I truly hope that I have not stepped on any toes.
Twees

Not mine but I wouldn't tell any .45-70 fanatics their guns won't kill moose. :rotf:

 

Neither would I. My Newfoundland moose was taken '96 with a Ruger #3 in 45-70. By a strange co-incidence, that was with a 405 grain bullet as well.
I only wish I can get the Hawken to perform as well as the 45-70.
Twees

 

[gmww]

I'm hoping to get my 1:22.5" twist underhammer to perform like a Sharps 45/70. I'll need to find me some 405 grain bullets and size them if I can.

 

[horsesoldier03]

A friend of mine recently shot a deer with a .50 350 gr Thompson Center Maxi Hunter with 85gr of FFF. The deer was shot at approx. 50 yards. He had a good wound channel and recovered the deer within a short distance. However the bullet did not penetrate the off side, it was found just beneath the hide while we were skinning it. Just because you have alot of bullet weight, dont think it will push all the way out the other side. Find a ballistic calculator for BP vs conical and run the #'s. I find it hard to beleive that more than one Black Bear or Moose hasnt been harvested by a PRB. Ever seen the movie Braveheart, the rock throwing scene is a good example of MASS vs VELOCITY. A PRB is still gonna end up putting a .75" hole once that hot lead spreads out a bit.

 

OK, so I got to try a bunch of PRBs today. 80 gr.of Goex 2F. Swab every other shot, and dry barrel.
No complaints as to accuracy at 50 yards. The problem is that they are a bear to load when compared to a Powerbelt and pyrodex. That short starter thing sucks. Seems to take forever. I can surely see myself using the BP load for deer, but only if I can speed up the reloading time. I still think it is too light a load for anything else I plan to hunt, but that's just my opinion. I guess speeding up reloading time will take a bit of practice. Ah shucks, more time at the range. Ain't that too bad? Looking to get reloading time down to under 1 minute.
Thanks again
Twees

 

[Slamfire]

Cone the muzzle, throw away that short starter. Use a loading block, it'll position the ball and patch in the coned muzzle and you can thumb it down far enough to use a choked up ramrod. :wink:

 

[horsesoldier03]

I shoot PRB and I dont even own a short start. I place the patch on the muzzle, put the ball on top and press it down good with my thumb. In the same movement, I pull the ramrod, use the bare wood end and push the load home. I hear alot about spit & dry patch, but I prefer lubed. My barrel stays nice and clean. I only dry patch after about every 10 rnds with no issues in between. My accuracy stays within a 4" circle at 50 yrds. I will give you this, some of the conicals out there are extremely user friendly. It is kind of nice to only deal with bullet and powder. All basically boils down to preference! But dont count out the PRB, it is just as deadly as a conical!