reaming question

[zimmerstutzen]

I have an old TC 45 Hawken barrel, that was abused and left to rust. Paid about $10 for the barrel to get the sights and underrib. I just scrounged up an adjustable reamer that goes from 468 to 518

I think I can work out an extension to turn the reamer through the 28 inch barrel length. What, if any cutting oil should I use and should I do it in a vertical position so the chips fall straight down out of the way. Breech removed of course.

Is this a practical way to convert the barrel to useful again? And can I go up to .500 in one pass or would that be hogging too much metal at one time?

 

[ohio ramrod]

Adjustable reamers of the center expanding type are intended to remove steel by .0001's. So you will need several passes. The end expanding ones will take out more stock at a pass but leave a rougher finish. As for cutting oils if you don't have comerical cutting oil take motor oil and mix it 50/50 with kerosene. :hmm:

 

[Birddog6]

My guess is you most likely will break the adjustable reamer. (Depending on the type of reamer it is too)
ON the ones with the thin blade inserts, I think the reamers blades (cutters) most likely are going to catch on the rifling & bind, possibly break them.
Might be better to bore the rifling out & then ream to size, then recut the rifling or leave it as a smoothbore.

Break 2-3 good reamers (not the elcheapos) & you could have bought a good used barrel.

Keith Lisle

 

[Vaino]

When I was in tool and diemaking and an "odd size" hole had to be reamed, I took a regular drill and ground and stoned a "bullet nose" or ogive for the cutting edge. This "reamer" cut a very accurate hole size. If'n I was enlarging the bore from .45 to .50 cal.. I'd first go in w/ a drill that was 1/64 undersize of .500 and then finish w/ a .500 drill which had the "bullet nose" or ogive. A lathe is the machine to use because of the 28" length....Fred

 

[Zonie]

Generally speaking, reamers are not meant to cut interrupted surfaces like rifle bores with rifling left in them.

This is especially true with adjustable reamers.

The rifling will catch the edge of the blades and break them.

Even in a uninterrupted hole a reamer is usually not asked to remove more than .003.

As for a cutting oil I would use a good thread cutting oil, available at most hardware stores.

 

[Ed Cigallio]

Boys, a few weeks ago I watched a Gentleman ream a New Englander barrel to a mirror finish with a square bit on a hand cranked reaming bench, slick as a ribbon. It took him about 2 hours as he took tenths out at a time. I would have never guessed that square tool would have worked on a barrel with rifling in it but it did just fine.
Ed

 

[jerrywh]

I agree with Zonie on this. I have reamed several barrels with square reamers and frankly I don't believe you. Whoever you are. You have to drill them out first. You don't take more than a .001 to .003 at a pass.

 

[Birddog6]

I recently purchased all of a old gunmakers rifle building tools & machinery. Generally speaking, one way of re-rifling he would drill the bore, then ream it, be it a new bore or to re-rifling one. Then he had ? 12 or so hand made square reamers he made & would ream with the bore with them to get a new fresh even bore, then rifle them on his sine rifling machine he built.
I am not saying you could not ream a rifled bore, but I think it could be quite slow, taxing & possibly allot of trouble & expense vs. buying a used barrel in good cond. I see them for sale in the Classified her all the time.

Also, another way he Freshened old bores.....
Best I can tell from the equipment I received & notes there of......... to freshen the bores of old bores in need, he would drill the bore slightly larger than the existing by a few thousands...
take a wood dowel & insert in the bore
pour a lead slug about 6-8" long in the bore around that dowel.
Remove slug on dowel & then cut a slot in the lead slug.
Make a small cut in the slot & make a cutter insert to cut a new groove.
You pull that cutter thru each groove til it will cut no more.
Remove cutter & put in 1 thin piece of cigerette paper
insert cutter & pull thru each groove again until it cuts no more.
Repeat procedure til you get the depth of rifling you want & all the pits & etc. are gone.

I have 4 of these old cutters, I will post a photo of them later if any are interested.

Keith Lisle

 

[Paul R]

Keith, I do have a TC hawken barrel that would benefit with, at least, that procedure. More information would be definitly appreciated.

Paul

 

[Swtodd]

Yes, i would like to see it too, sounds interesting.

steve

 

[Birddog6]

OK. First of all I will state I have not done this with these tools. I am showing & telling based on what I have in hand & the notes with the stuff I bought, and what I have been told by old timers that have freshened barrels, and what I have read.

Anyone that knows more about this, please jump right in.....

These are the cutter heads that are lead or babitt poured in the barrel over the ramrod piece of wood. 4 dif calibers here. 3 have a cutter slot in them, the double one does not, I can't tell you why. I will surmise it was started & not finished. Notice the front of the rod (right side in photo) is cut/shaped to go into a clevis & then a pin retaining it in the clevis.

Hard to get a good photo, but you can make out the rifling & the slot cut in the rod is for the cutter insert.

Cutter insert could look something like this drawing, front has to be pointed & angled down & goes into a inlet shaped like the cutter, into the rod on the Pull side, point being on the Pull Side, so when you pull the tool the front of the cutter cannot rise up. Have not found the actual cutter inserts as have allot of stuff to go thru & no time to do it yet.

Cutter pull rod I have is as such & steel, with clevis on one end to pin the cutter head to, & should have a bearing in the other end so it free floats & lets the cutter & the cutter head easily ride the rifling to maintain the same groove cut & twist. I saw the rod when I got the stuff, dang if I can lay my hands on it at the moment. :idunno:

You pull cutter head thru each groove. Remove cutter insert, put 1 piece of cigarette paper under the cutter to shim it, repeat cuts on each groove one at a time til they have all been cut/shaved. Lift cutter insert, shim again, repeat procedure.

The reason you use thin cigarette paper is because it is Thin & you are barely shaving the groove. If you put too much in there, it cuts too deep & will bit deep & jam...... now you have the cutter stuck in the barrel...... :shake: Not... a good situation...

Notes say use LOTS of oil on each groove, as it will bind up if not. The shavings pulled out of it is finer than hair..... It takes many many many passes. How many to clean it all up would depend on the depth of the pits, widths of the grooves, hardness of the steel, quality of the cutter you made, lots of things.

I can tell you it is not a 15 min fix, we are talking about a all day job.... if everything goes right & you don't tear the cutter or cutter head up.

Keith Lisle

Note: If you bore ALL the rifling out, you would have to have a way of indexing each groove to keep them spaced evenly. The rifling machine I have has such a index head & will cut 5,6,7,8 or 9 grooves in a barrel, depending on the bore, width of groove, etc.
I don't know of a way you could do it without some kind of index head to keep them evenly spaced. I do know on the older type of rifling machine like Ken Guy & Steve Bookout uses, the center worm on the machine has grooves cut evenly in it & a pin rides the groove. To go to the next groove, you pull the pin, rotate the center worm, insert pin for the next groove. Repeat procedure, got to next groove & so on...

 

[ohio ramrod]

It just happens that I am in the process of making a brass cutter holder for cutting rifling deeper for 45 caliber 1 in 48 twist. I poured a lead slug to use to get my angle correct (just under 2 1/2 degrees ) It is my intention to pour a lead pilot slug on to each end to aline the cutter to the existing rifling and use a fine set screw to adjust the cutter depth. But the grape crop has put my gunsmithing on hold. I'll keep you all informed if this works when I get time to get back to it.

 

[Roy]

I have made those and have done that twice.. guess mostly to say that I have done it and to know that I could. My cutters had more teeth on them sort of like a file. I made a new cutter for each barrel as well as rod. The wood piece has to just fit the bore of the gun or the babbit will just pour around it. Where the babbit is poured the wood is filed square. I used crisco for lube pulled on one cut and cleaned the cutter. Its a long process. Cheaper to buy a barrel.. :haha: unless you are stubborn like me :v

 

[jerrywh]

I think it is near imposible to ream a riflrd bore with a square reamer. You could do it with a spiral reamer that had a real fast twist but why take all that metal out with a reamer when it is much faster just to drill it out?

 

[Birddog6]

Jerry, that is why I said:

" I am not saying you could not ream a rifled bore, but I think it could be quite slow, taxing & possibly allot of trouble & expense vs. buying a used barrel in good cond. I see them for sale in the Classified her all the time."

Keith Lisle

 

[ohio ramrod]

Square reamers are used for final finishing and are intended to take out .0001's not .001's. They do leave a nice finish but are not for those in a hurry. :idunno:

 

[jerrywh]

technically you are correct but there are no .0001 shims so one must go for the .001 shim stock. .001 always worked for me.

 

[talon]

Last I heard Rayl was reaming out old TC barrels to smoothbore for around $100.00. Might have to call him for a current price.

 

[John Taylor]

I ream out quite a few barrels and have not found any adjustable reamer that will work for a rifle barrel. The chip removal is the biggest problem, get a few to many chips built up and it will cut a groove in the bore. I use an old lathe set up with a pump to keep a steady flow of cutting oil going through the bore. This not only lubes the reamer but flushes out the chips. I have taken out up to 1/16" with one pass. Most of the time I am installing liners so I am not worried about smoothness as much. When I am working on getting a smooth bore I use a store bought reamer and grind the lead different then attach it to the oil tube. On bigger bores I use a reamer from Pacific Tool that is designed for the job. They ain't cheep at around $180.

 

[jerrywh]

Taylor.. What are you using for liners???