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Rear sight location
- Thread starter ihuntsnook
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paulvallandigham
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The problem with seeing rear IRON sights on rifles, particularly as we age- is usually based on the fact that the sight "NOTCH" is too small!
I leave the rear sight back, to get the best sight radius. But, I open the rear sight up wider, so I can see plenty of daylight on both sides of the front sight post, or around the bead front sight. I just bought a used rifle made almost 50 years ago. Its a modern suppository gun, but I have wanted one of these since I was a kid, and the price on this one was so low I could not let it get past me. But, the prior owner(s) had scope on it, but took it off when the gun was sold. The iron sights have not been used for years, as was evident from the amount of congealed oil or grease and dust I found in, under, and around the rear sight. The rear sight is typically small, and works great in good daylight shooting at paper targets with big black bullseyes. For anything else-- not so good.
:shocked2:
Its on my "to-do" list this winter to open up that notch with my dremel tool.
Age has made the size of the rear sight notch an issue in almost every gun I shoot. But, rather than doing all that dove-tailing and making fillers every couple of years, I would rather widen the notch. Years ago, when my eyesight became an issue, I first began removing the apertures altogether from the peep sights I had on some rifles. Today, you pay BIG MONEY for a "GHOST RING" sight that does the same thing! :shocked2: :blah: :grin: :hatsoff:
As is obvious, other opinions vary. :surrender:
I leave the rear sight back, to get the best sight radius. But, I open the rear sight up wider, so I can see plenty of daylight on both sides of the front sight post, or around the bead front sight. I just bought a used rifle made almost 50 years ago. Its a modern suppository gun, but I have wanted one of these since I was a kid, and the price on this one was so low I could not let it get past me. But, the prior owner(s) had scope on it, but took it off when the gun was sold. The iron sights have not been used for years, as was evident from the amount of congealed oil or grease and dust I found in, under, and around the rear sight. The rear sight is typically small, and works great in good daylight shooting at paper targets with big black bullseyes. For anything else-- not so good.
:shocked2: Its on my "to-do" list this winter to open up that notch with my dremel tool.
Age has made the size of the rear sight notch an issue in almost every gun I shoot. But, rather than doing all that dove-tailing and making fillers every couple of years, I would rather widen the notch. Years ago, when my eyesight became an issue, I first began removing the apertures altogether from the peep sights I had on some rifles. Today, you pay BIG MONEY for a "GHOST RING" sight that does the same thing! :shocked2: :blah: :grin: :hatsoff:
As is obvious, other opinions vary. :surrender:
nchawkeye
58 Cal.
Who built your gun??? Did they ask you where you wanted it or did you specify???
Those of us who have built them don't put them at the balance point where you'll be carrying them...They either go before or behind the hand...Simple process...
As far as a factory built gun, who knows, most prefer a better built flinter...
Those of us who have built them don't put them at the balance point where you'll be carrying them...They either go before or behind the hand...Simple process...
As far as a factory built gun, who knows, most prefer a better built flinter...
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I have four long rifles, three of which are second hand. All but one has the sight on the balance point.
I made some measurements yesterday on both modern and muzzleloader guns, a bunch of both. Fullstock
muzzleloaders averaged 27 to 28" from buttplate to rear sight, halfstocks about 25". Modern cartridge longguns about 22" and carbines like Winchester M94 levers (a very popular gun with all ages of eyes)19 1/2". Interesting thing is I've never heard of anyone wanting to move the sights out forward on anything but the muzzleloaders that already have them way out there. The human eye can only focus one place at a time and that should be on the front sight, the rear sight and the target will always be out of focus, even on handguns where they are very close together.
Deadeye
muzzleloaders averaged 27 to 28" from buttplate to rear sight, halfstocks about 25". Modern cartridge longguns about 22" and carbines like Winchester M94 levers (a very popular gun with all ages of eyes)19 1/2". Interesting thing is I've never heard of anyone wanting to move the sights out forward on anything but the muzzleloaders that already have them way out there. The human eye can only focus one place at a time and that should be on the front sight, the rear sight and the target will always be out of focus, even on handguns where they are very close together.
Deadeye
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The point of this post was not about eye relief, it was about locating the sight at the balance point. I'm a still hunter and I do a lot of walking. I have four longrifles -- two custom, and two made from kits. I also have a Great Plains rifle from Lyman. I didn't built any of them, yet all but one, as well as every other production muzzleloader I've ever owned has the sight at the balance point. I wondered why this was. If that was a stupid question, I give.
When having theoptio to pace a rear sight I alwasy put it wear it was best suited for my vision needs and that became farther and farther out over the years, I always tried to use the smallest sights I coukld find which not only followed the practice on many originals but reduced a lot of issues with being a hindrence when carrying the gun, and personaly I rarely carry a gun one handed at the "balance" point I almosy always cradle the gun in the crook of my left elbow, I can put my right hand atop the left and still keep the lock under my cape or large sleeves of my outer wrap garment or match coat, probably lots of variables with what works and what doesn't for different folks
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I can only tell you my experience with a gun builder there was a discussion about the placement of the rear sight and aging eyes. I was pretty much told that he wouldn't place it at the balance point and why...something I had never given a thought to until then and given everything we settled on placing the rear sight at 11" from the breech which works very well for me.
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not a stupid question, jus hard to answer,,,factory made guns probably placed sight where someone thought it looked good, as for the custom made, evidently the builder was taught or assumed that was where it should go,,many builders do not put sight at balance,because most have used their own guns an would realize the flaw...I had one built(????) that had the sight..jus so wrong :shocked2: ,,but Roy fixed :bow: ...an its really hard to tell where he replace the dovetail, I'm sure this will bring back fond memories to Roy,,,but point is it can be fixed on any gun you have......but point taken it are a pia at balance point....
"The human eye can only focus one place at a time and that should be on the front sight, the rear sight and the target will always be out of focus,"
Probably because the guns ae so much longer it might ave looked better to space things out, as to no two ythomgs in focus, some people may just want to reduce the blurr to a more tolerable level which can be done by rear sight placement, at least Roy and I have been able to do this it appears, "in my opinion"...the last little thing in quotes is something that is a good habit to get into when you start tossing around absolutes
Probably because the guns ae so much longer it might ave looked better to space things out, as to no two ythomgs in focus, some people may just want to reduce the blurr to a more tolerable level which can be done by rear sight placement, at least Roy and I have been able to do this it appears, "in my opinion"...the last little thing in quotes is something that is a good habit to get into when you start tossing around absolutes
Darn had to go out and pick up a rifle and look down the sights at my target after that :haha:
I focused my rear sight.. then focused on my front sight.. then focused on on the target about 40 yds away. Then thinking about it I tried to see them all at once. Ya know its not perfect focus on all three, but it is (if I put a percentage to it) probably at 95% focus on all three. Just a slight haze. Not fuzzy, just ever slightly out of focus. :idunno:
I probably should shoot more.. :haha: and think less..
I focused my rear sight.. then focused on my front sight.. then focused on on the target about 40 yds away. Then thinking about it I tried to see them all at once. Ya know its not perfect focus on all three, but it is (if I put a percentage to it) probably at 95% focus on all three. Just a slight haze. Not fuzzy, just ever slightly out of focus. :idunno:
I probably should shoot more.. :haha: and think less..
I assembled one rifle from purchased parts and parts built by myself. Between Peter Alexanders articles in Muzzleloader Magazine and Hershel House in Foxfire, I built the rifle in '89. Placed the sight where I wanted it as I looked down the barrel. Sits just behind the entry pipe. If there is a better way of positioning the rear sight I haven't read it yet. A very good question indeed.
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:hmm: are ya really suppose to "see" the rear sight??...I sorta always figured you only "see" it if its in the way of the front sight...your lookin AT the front sight an target...if not in rear sight ya couldn't see front....but that's me... longs i can see the front, an the rear ain't catchin my hand or glove carrying it,,,"I'm good! :haha:
are ya really suppose to "see" the rear sight??...I sorta always figured you only "see" it if its in the way of the front sight...your lookin AT the front sight an target...if not in rear sight ya couldn't see front....but that's me... longs i can see the front, an the rear ain't catchin my hand or glove carrying it,,,"I'm good! :haha:
Deadeye said:
Maybe yer online name sez it all. :wink: I dunno. But, you are older than me by about seven years. Moving the rear sight forward is/was a great assist to me for a long time. It is often said you can tell the age of the owner of a rifle by looking at the position of his rear sight. Now, most of the issue ended for me when I had cataract surgery and my natural born lens was replaced with a plastic one. (is that 'authentic'?). It does help to move the sight although eyes still do age and nothing will ever be like it was when we were 20 years old. I advocate moving as needed.
BTW, on my best rifle, a Rev. period transitional flint, the rear sight is at the balance point. The reason being, this rifle is as near as is humanly possible an exact replica of a Rev. rifle and that is where the original sight is/was located. Don't ask me why. :idunno:
tjohnson56
40 Cal.
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Your only 38, give it another 20 - 25 years and you will see the light, hopefully.
762subsonic
32 Cal.
I feel your pain. On my 44" barrel rifle the rear sight is 12" and gives me a better sight picture than the others that are 11".
richdeerht
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A young man can shoot with old man's sights, but the opposite is not true. My rear sights are farther forward than they are on production guns.
A friend of mine has one gun with four dove tail blanks between the breech and the current rear sight location.He has had the gun for over 30 years and is in his late 70's, it is a 42" barrel so he figures the barrel length with outlast him.
1776, An interesting thing is that on cartridge guns with long octagon barrels I've never seen or heard of anyone moving their rear sights forward
it's only on muzzleloaders that this old wives tale continues to exist. Maybe my eyes are just exceptional but with my 6" from the breech rear sights I've been able to win 98 to 99% of all muzzleloader matches I've shot for the last 16 yrs. rifle, pistol, shotgun and trade gun. That has influenced me to feel it isn't necessary but maybe for some folks it is but apparently only if it's a muzzleloader.
Deadeye
it's only on muzzleloaders that this old wives tale continues to exist. Maybe my eyes are just exceptional but with my 6" from the breech rear sights I've been able to win 98 to 99% of all muzzleloader matches I've shot for the last 16 yrs. rifle, pistol, shotgun and trade gun. That has influenced me to feel it isn't necessary but maybe for some folks it is but apparently only if it's a muzzleloader.
Deadeye
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