Rear sights.....

[deanscamaro]

Okay, everyone, Newbie is back, getting more annoying. Given my eyesight is getting bad and the info from Paul on peeps, I have now decided to get a peep rear sight to see if it helps. All my searches have them mounted with 2 screws. I was looking to find a peep that mounted in my existing dovetail slot. I now have a standard iron open sight, that fits in the dovetail and has a locking screw in it to tighten it down. I have a Pedersoli-made, U.S. version of the percussion Scout Carbine which I got as a kit. I have questions (No S__T!):
1. In reference to the receiver end of the barrel, where does the peep normally sit (my dovetail slot is 7" from the receiver end of the barrel)?
2. Does anyone know of peeps that mount in the dovetail slots (I can't find any with my searches) or are they always mounted closer to the shooter's eye, therefore making the dovetail useless?
3. If not in the dovetail slot, do I have to find a gun-knowledgable machine shop to drill/tap my barrel, since I don't have the capability?

I would appreciate any help I can get from you experts out there, as this newbie doesn't want to take off in the wrong direction.

:idunno: :idunno: :hatsoff:

 

[Rogue River]

Track of the wolf item #"rs-ca-peep-14". There is 3 styles on the one page. I'm having the same eye issues as you are and I just picked up a peep that going on the Tang. I don't think mounting it in the dovetail will work w/bad eyes, you need it close so as to make it clearer. Just my opinion. :idunno:

 

[Goldhunter]

Peep sights generally work better closer to the eye than the dovetail for the rear sight.

 

[paulvallandigham]

The general rule is that a peep sight must be no more than 5 inches from your eye( or eyeglass lens) to be effective. Otherwise, the eye tends to look AT the PEEP SIGHT, and not thru it! If the peep sight is within 5", the eye will naturally center the sight in the vision of the eye. You won't have to look At the sight, to find it, first, and then look through it, if you can, to find the front sight to align on your target.

For more guns this means a tang mounted peep sight. A sight made to fit a dovetail, that is not cut in the rear of the barrel, or in the tang, to meet the 5" requirement, is not going to work, well, for you. For such a sight to work in a forward mounted position, the ring of the "peep" would have to be much larger, like looking through one of the new electronic sights, or the lens of a "Scout Scope". I doubt that is what interests you.

Back in the 1830s, and '40s, people experimented with long "TUBE" sights, where wires were mounted to create a cross hair sight, in the tube, but there was no magnification, nor internal adjustment. The size of the pipe was up to the builder. I have seen such a Tube sight on a MLER owned by a friend, altho I have never had a chance to shoot the gun. He bought the gun used at an auction, and it has all the appearances of being a very accurate target rifle. The Tube comes all the way back over the tang, so that the rear opening of the tube is well within the 5 inches required of a peep sight. The wires were mounted through drilled holes about 1/2 the distance down the tube- which was as long as the barrel, and tang combined. I think the tube was either 5/8" or 3/4" in diameter, and was either aluminum or brass. There was some kind of adjustment similar to what you saw in adjustable base scope mounts 60 years ago, in the rear base of the blocks that held the tube to the gun.

 

[deanscamaro]

Thanks, Paul and everybody, for the responses, the summary of which I think I had already expected......it has to be mounted closer to the eye than the dovetail can establish. I thought there might be a peep that had a long ramp that would mount in the dovetail, but reach back closer to the eye, but it appears those sights don't exist. I guess I will just have to find a gunsmith who can drill and tap the mounting for a peep in the location it needs to be and decide on the peep. Any suggestions on which peep, cost-wise and performance-wise, might be the best choice for a paper puncher?

:v :v

 

[Rogue River]

Look on the Pedersoli web site they have all kinds of peep sights that will mount to your existing tang screws! I don't know what they have for your model rifle but it's a start. Also Track Of the Wolf. Check out T/C tang mount sight, Track carries it and they also have some Pedersoli sights.

 

[deanscamaro]

Okay, I'm going to take one last shot (maybe last) at all you knowledgable people out there. On the Pedersoli website, under Creedmores, they have a sight termed the USA422 Ghost sight, which looks attractive to me. I have looked at their listed distributors and searched their websites and in a couple of cases made calls to see if anyone had this sight in the U.S........can't find it. Does anyone have any experience with this sight and/or know where it can be obtained? Would appreciate any feedback that can be mustered.
:bow: :bow:

 

[paulvallandigham]

I tried to see the sight you refer to and find NO such sight listed in the Pedersoli Website. Can you give us a link to the page where you saw this?

Any properly mounted peep sight can become a " ghost" sight simply be removing the screw-in aperture from the mount. I have done this for years using both Redfield, and Lyman peep sights on modern rifles.

The " secret" to making any ring work as a ghost, or peep sight is to mount it so that the sight is no MORE THAN 5 inches from your eye, or corrective lens. Within that distance, the human eye will automatically center the front sight in the "peep", so that you don't actually LOOK AT the rear sight at all. :hatsoff:

 

[Rogue River]

Paul-- The sight is on Pedersoli web Home Page near the bottom of the page!

 

[Rogue River]

Look under Pedersoli Distributors "Beauchamp and Son" thier web page says if we don't have we can order it! In fact the sight appealed to me so I wrote them to inquire about it. If and when I get any info on it I will pass it on!

 

[deanscamaro]

Maybe you already have the web address, Paul, but I have pasted it below. From looking at the picture of the sight at Pedersoli, I would guess it is within your 5" range from the eye. Also, Rogue, thanks for the effort to find it. I don't believe I tried Beauchamp & Sons; I will now. Let me know what you find out.
http://www.davide-pedersoli.com/?item=AccessoriDettaglio&CategoriaId=1315&lang=en

:hatsoff:

 

[Zonie]

If you install any of those Pedersoli sights you will also have to install a very tall front sight as you can see on this Tryon.

This pretty much takes the gun out of the 1850's and moves it into the 1870's but if ones eyesight is failing a man does what he has to do.

 

[paulvallandigham]

This is very similar to a tang sight offered by several sources here in the USA. Its okay, but I like the idea of having a peep sight that I can screw an aperture into for sunny bright days, when I can take advantage of the small hole in the aperture, but switch it out, simply by unscrewing the aperture, and using the 1/4" hole in the post as the Ghost Ring sight you want.

On my last Wild Boar Hunt, I took a Win. .30-30 with me with a peep sight on it. The morning was deeply overcast, and we were hunting in woods, so I removed the aperture, put it in my shirt pocket, and hunted with the " ghost ring". The Boar I shot walked past me at about 6 feet, and either didn't see me, or didn't view me as a danger. I almost shot it with my revolver, instead.

:hmm: :hatsoff: If I had left the aperture sight in the post, it would have been difficult to place my front sight on her side at such a short range. With the Ghost Ring, I had enough light to see exactly where the bullet would go.

 

[Zonie]

OH!
Another thought about a tang sight like I have on my Tryon.

It lays back towards the butt when it is folded making the rifle totally unfit for use with the open sights unless you like the idea of poking your eye with the top of the folded sight when the gun goes off. :hmm:

 

[deanscamaro]

Okay, this is a response targeted in general to those tang sights with the long range flag poles used for elevation adjustment. I may be weird, but I shoot, kill and eat paper (its a little tough to skin and dress out). I probably won't have a lot of requirement to shoot much over 100 yards, but if ever, it won't be much. Monthly club shoots, if ever I decided to compete at, are around that distance for the ones I have watched. I just spend a lot of time at the range fine-tuning my 50 and myself to improve my offhand. I just enjoy the process of muzzleloading and shooting; gave up hunting years ago. Most everything I pull up on the Internet regarding tang peeps, brings up the flag poles. So based on just that, why wouldn't something like that ghost ring be more fitted to my progressively deteriorating, 71 year old eyes?
:idunno: :idunno:

 

[Zonie]

IMO, the "ghost rings" I've seen have a inside diameter of over 1/8 inch.
They are OK for hunting accuracy but not for precision shooting.

Because of their large diameter, they also do little or nothing to improve vision beyond letting a lot of light thru which helps in low light conditions.

The small holes (1/16 or less) in a good peep sight works much like the old "pin hole" cameras or a modern camera with the f stop closed way down. The focal length approaches infinity making near and far things in focus at the same time.

With these small apertures, even an eye with poor vision will be able to see things clearly.
I should modify that a bit.

When I had cataracts (in both eyes) I switched to peep sights to improve my vision when I was shooting. This explains why my Tryon and my TC Hawken have peep sights.
The peep sights did greatly improve the view of the target and the front sight but it did nothing to eliminate the 2 other targets or front sights my damaged eye was seeing.
I chose to sight in the guns so that the lower left sight and target were the ones I used for aiming.
Fortunatly, my insurance paid for the operations needed for both eyes and I see only one target and one sight now.

Anyway, the large diameter found in ghost rings won't help your vision and they will reduce your ability to aim with great precision.

 

[deanscamaro]

Excellent feedback, Zonie. My problem is worse, then, because the ghost rings are too large, but I have no need, in my opinion, for one of those flagpoles that adjust the elevation to infinity (probably not, but they sure are high). Maybe all that is left is one of the peeps from TOW, like that at their web site below, which is between 1/16" and 1/32" aperature:
http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Cate...RS-TC-7194&AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport=1&as=1

Have any feedback on those?
:idunno: :idunno:

 

[paulvallandigham]

Deano: You might try putting tape on your shooting glasses lens, with a small hole punched out with a paper punch in the tape,situated so that you look through the small hole at your current sights. This often helps older eyes focus better. I also have one of those adjustable stick on peep sights from Merit Corporation. It has a little rubber suction cup on it, that you wet with saliva, and stick to your lens, so that the peep is located where you look through your glasses when aiming a rifle.

Both systems help the eye focus better, because they are so close to the eye. In that regard, they work better than even a tang mounted peep sight with a small aperture.

 

[deanscamaro]

Well, somewhere I picked up a similar solution. I wear glasses and have numerous older and unused clip-on sunglasses. I took one, found my sight path through them and cut a small hole through at that point. I then blacked over that lens. This seems to improve the sight picture, but is somewhat of a pain to be putting them on and off as I put holes in paper. That is the reason for searching for a ghost-ring-like peep versus the highly elevation-adjustable peeps that seem to populate the existing supplier choices. That suction cup alternative sounds like it is worth looking into. Thanks!

:grin:

 

[gmww]

Have you considered putting on a Williams sight? I replaced the "V" site with an aperture sight made for their other sights. The base fits in the dove tail.

This does not look traditional but works well.