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sepiatone

40 Cal.
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Jul 1, 2008
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I've been working up different loads with my percussion Great Plains Rifle and this is the best that I have been able to get. With this rifle, should they be tighter?

My current load is 495 ball, .018 patch, 5:1 ballistol, 80 gr of 2f. The target below is 50 yard bench.

I'm pretty new to shooting MLs and don't know if this would be considered "ok" or "horrible".

Thanks in advance


target.jpg
 
Looks like you're groups are around 3 1/2 to 4". You should be able to cut that in half.
 
Try some .490 balls and then some FFFg. A friend of mine has an old .54 CVA Hawkens. I started him out with .530 balls, pillow ticking (.018) lubed with Ballistol and FFg powder. His best group was about 4 to 5 inches at 50 yards. I gave him some FFFg Goex to try. His groups insyantly wemt to 1 1/2 inches. All depends on what your rifle likes.
 
Are you wiping the bore between shots? Good groups are created through consistency. The barrel must be in the same condition for every shot or there will be a different point of impact. It doesn't have to be rocket science, just keep your load consistent and wipe with the same thickness (damp) patch after every shot. That Lyman should be capable of two inch or less groups at that range.
 
:v Hi
I have a great plains as well I use 498 ball 18thou pillow ticking with wonder lube 1000 and 65 grains of fffg wano powder off the bench at 50 yards 1.5 inch groups all day... wiping between shots with what we call here in OZ "baby wipes" which are cloth baby bottom wipes with lanolin added as a moisturizer. The rifle never shot well with FFG it was hopeless.
keep at it you will get there
 
Couple of things:

How do your recovered patches look? If they're torn or shredded, that can knock your accuracy.

What about your bench technique? My GPRs shoot best if I have my hand on the forend, then rest my hand on the rest rather than putting the rifle directly on it.

Oh heck, one more: How's your eyesight?

My 50 cal GPR capper likes Goex 3f a whole lot more than 2f, and .490 balls with .018 patches a whole lot better than any other combo. Each gun is different, but changes in components often have a bigger impact on accuracy than a mere change in powder charge.
 
have a friend cap your gun and watch you close. once ina while have him not out a cap on and not ell you to see if you are jerking the gun. i was doing this and it helped my accuracy a ton. also i second or third clean between shots. also are you using a wet or dry patch. if your using wet you have to make sure you have the same ammount of moisture in each one. i use the same ballistol mixture but i let my patches dry after soaking. good luck and remember sighting in a gun is half the fun also it builds confidence in your rifle.
 
Yes, you should be shooting tighter groups with that gun at that range. Without knowing more about how your patches look- I suspect you are burning patches with that heavy hunting load---- and how you clean the gun, and how well you see the sights, or the target, or how experienced you are shooting open sights on any rifle, Its only a guess as to what is going wrong here.

It looks like you are using Dutch Schoultz' dry patch recipe. You need to dry those patches or material Flat- not over a line, or suspended from one end. The latter only lets the oil move to the lower portion of the patching, leaving more oil than needed at the low end, and little or no oil at the top. NOT GOOD!

I recommend cleaning between each shot- but I use a cleaning patch just touched to my tongue to dampen it enough to pick up unburned residue. DO NOT run the cleaning jag/patch ALL THE WAY down the barrel. You are pulling the crud out- not shoving it down into the powder chamber. I recommend stopping the jag about 1 inch from the face of the breechplug- or beginning of the powder chamber, then pulling out the crud from the barrel. You will need a bore brush the correct diameter of the powder chamber and a cleaning patch to clean out the powder chamber. I always recommend drying the barrel after you have run anything damp down it. Do this drying in stages, ie., run the dry patch down about 1/3 of the barrel, then pull up on it, to break loose and crud in that part of the barrel; Then run it down the next 1/3, and reverse the direction to pull the patch up that 1/3 of the barrel; then run it down to the beginning of the powder chamber, and pull the patch out of the barrel completely.

This should give you a barrel that is a clean as the barrel was for your first shot.

I found that 60-65 grains of FFg powder is all that is required for great accuracy in my .50 at 50 yards. I then worked up a 100 yd. load, and found shooting 75 grains more accurate- but only slightly-- than the 80 grain charge, and better, the felt recoil was less, and difference in POI was insignificant. Since accuracy is more important than velocity with any round ball load when hunting at that long range, I stuck with the 75 grains powder charge.

Sometimes, just switching to FFFg powder will vastly improve the performance of a rifle's accuracy. its always worth testing it out. For example, a very good friend of mine bought a .62 cal. rifle from another club member, in excellent condition, and began working on loads off a bench at 25 yards, at the club. He was using FFg and could not find a load that would put the ball on paper, much less hit a bang plate that was about 8 inches in diameter. He had forgotten to take a can of FFFg powder to the range, and he was very frustrated by the time I arrived. I immediately offered him my FFFg powder to use, over his protestations that "Big Bore MLers require 2Fg powder"( the old adage). well, the first load he tried- i don't remember what-- he put his ball in the back near center. He fired a couple of more shots and they joined the first. He was both ecstatic, and angry that the gun did not shoot FFg powder well. But, he got over his anger once he found both a target load that was very accurate, and his hunting load, using FFFg powder.

One last thing you can try if you are having trouble holding that front sight on target:

Take a piece of paper, and fold it from one corner to another, forming a large Triangle. Staple this to the target, with the point of the triangle giving your your aiming point. For old eyes, and open sights, this large triangle helps you find that "Point " consistently, even at 100 yds., and you should see your groups reduce in size. I use a business card at 50 yd. targets, because the bullseye is so large, a white business card contrasts nicely with that background. Either have the triangle come up from below, or from overhead. Either works. Some shooters like one better than the other. :thumbsup: :hatsoff:
 
I do wipe between each shot with a light saliva moistened patch--although I run it all the way down. Next time out I'll run it an inch from the breech.

My patches have been looking good since I switched to using a ballistol dry patch. Prior switching they were badly burned.

My groups open up drastically using 3f. I'm not sure if it is my rifle or me. I may be flinching but don't notice it. I also do not have much experience shooting with open sights which I believe may be my biggest problem tightening these groups.

Thanks for all of the responses! I really enjoy shooting MLs but don't know anyone that shoots so all the information I get is from this site.
 
You need to practice with open sights that is for sure. Be sure you sight picture is perfect as can be each shot. Most inportant is can you say without a dought where you front sight was on the target when the shot went off. If you can't you need to practice more until you can call all your shots (where the sight is when the shot goes off)
You will get better the more to work at it and it will become more fun as the groups get smaller.
Changing powder or patches can make great differences in your groups. I changed patches on my Son without telling him and his groups were cut in half.
Fox :thumbsup:
 
My .50 GPR likes .490 RB, .015 spit patch - 50 gr 3f at 25 yds, 55 gr 3f at 50 yds and 75 gr 3f at 100 yds. Same POA for all 3 loads. If shooting off a bench, you should easily be able to shoot 2 1/2", 3-shot groups at 100 yds, half that at 50 yds and one ragged hole at 25 yds.

How many rounds through the rifle? Might just need more trigger time to get it broke in. If it's a new rifle and you haven't got at least 100 rounds through it, don't get too carried away adjusting the sights just yet. Practice, practice, practice . . .
 
Keep at it they will tighten up, If you think you could be flinching have someone watch you shoot or make a video of your shot. My GPR likes 100grn of fffg Goex ,pillow ticking from WW , spit patch & .490 Hornady round balls. Just keep working at change your load,change your patch, change ball size But you should only change one thing at a time until you figure out what works best. And you will figure it out it just takes a little time sometimes. :thumbsup:
 
I realized at the range today that my problem is with my sigting. When aiming, my front sight looks blurry. It looks "right" when aiming at a dark target when in reality I'm off. This makes sense as I do wear really strong prescription glasses.
 
To get in practice time with open sights, dust off an old .22 rifle and practice using those open sights. Scopes are fun, but they don't teach fundamental marksmanship unless you know how to use them.

Please do number the shots on the target, so we can better tell what is going on with the next picture. If you don't have Dutch Schoultz's Black Powder Rifle Accuracy system, invest the $15.00 to get it. It has a lot of good information you can use to understand each part of shooting.
 
You just need to play around with different ball/patch combinations. Eventually you'll get it right.
 
Here's another thing to try. I've foung my GPR shoots tighter at 100yds with a felt wad between my powder and patch.

My gun for hunting likes 85gr 3F, .530 ball, .18 patch, and felt wad.

Every rifle is different.
 
40 Flint,

Thanks for the link. This is exactly what I need. Even though I'm 31 years old I have the eyes of a 71 year old.

Where can I purchase an aperature sight that clips on glasses?
 
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